James Naughtie vs Joyce Thacker, not to be missed.
We missed this the first time round. Thanks to Leo Starrenberg from Holland that can now be remedied. His email follows:
“It’s a windy rainy Sunday so I spent some time on the Internet.
Please tell me this interview is staged with good willing but still amateur actors: http://audioboo.fm/boos/1076097-council-protected-children-from-strong-views
If this is for real I do feel sorry for the good citizens of Rotherham …
And could it the Rotherham Advertiser possibly be sponsored by the Labour Party ?
Or at least receive the bulk of their income from the Labour led council ?
Do I understand correctly that JT et all have decided the ‘UKIP couple’ are allowed to continue taking care of kids, so long as they are white ???
We have a good Dutch word for that: Apartheid.”
cheers, Leo
Ukip object to people coming to the country and then living in separate ghetto’s and not integrating fully, if I understand them correctly. Multiculturism is when people live separately to the rest of us. If you go to another country, shouldn’t you be willing to accept the customs of that country, especially speaking the mother tongue, otherwise why would you come in the first place. As I said previously we have things to learn from immigrants, but they shouldn’t be forcing their own culture on us. I can’t understand why the children weren’t returned to the social services in the country of their origin, but one has concerns that children aren’t aren’t being removed from immigrant families in larger numbers than we may be aware of, for trivial reasons.
What a pity that when the British Empire invaded India, Africa and half the world they didn’t accept your philosophy and “learn native ways, culture, religion and history” and integrate with the locals.
No, not a bit of it. The natives had to be converted to Christianity, learn English and wear European clothes and abandon their religious celebrations. Ah, how we integrated.
Of course the British built cantonments, surrounded by fort walls guarded by armed soldiers, to keep out the indigenous residents whose land the Brits had invaded.
But, we did bring back many words from lands afar when the British pulled out – dinghy, bungalow, jungle, chit, wallah, char, khaki, dhobi – all still used here today in multi-cultural Great Britain.
Khuda Hafiz.
I fear Grald Hunter has studied history in some alternate reality. The British Empire never ‘invaded’ India. Firstly, there was no ‘Empire’ at the time the East India Company set up trading posts in the sub-continent and elsewhere in places like modern day Indonesia. The initial settlements were established in collaboration with local rulers. Something also undertaken by its French, Dutch and Portuguese equivalents.
Sorry I wasn’t around at the time but I can now speak up against our country being governed by an outside force that I didn’t elect to make those decisions for me, that has had a very negative effect on my own country the last 10 years. Why should I have to pay for the sins of my fore fathers. I actually went on a peace march against the Iraq war, because I didn’t believe that weapons of mass destruction existed and don’t agree with this second degree type of colonisation of other countries, especially Mcdonalds. I also believe that the United nations should be the one helping the Falklands determine their own future and not the UK.
Funny how we always try to rescue British drug smugglers from Thai and Indonesians justice? My mother taught in a school in Swanley Kent in the 70s and one of her pupils was sentenced to a long term in a Turkish prison for drug smuggling. “He was a stupid bugger and deserved all he got!” Quoth she!
Er, has anybody any idea at all, just what timawells is going on about????? – even in the slightest????
As a Christian i can’t help but agree with some of gralds sad analysis of British Imperialism (so much to regret) But we should also bear in mind that direct colonial rule often had to be introduced to protect indigenous people from the worst aspects of free market economics (Zambia a good e.g which only became a colony in 1924 after Cecil Rhodes had stolen it and Zimbabwe from the locals – US treatment of native Americans followed a similar course) Also it was often the action of Christian Missionaries that alleviated the worst excesses of imperilaism (David Livingstone e.g.). So state intervention and Christian benevolence can actually work for good on occasions. Here in UK in 2013 multi culturalism is not just a race issue – we have loads of sub cultures (goths, jedi, Polish, gays, train spotters, caravan clubbers etc etc etc) many not really wanting to integrate much with others. The biggest aspect of this multi culturalism is the divide between rich and poor and the illusion that we are one nation, not a divided nation. How many corporations buy into the fact they should contribute to the overall culture rather than take as much profit out of the country as they can on behalf of a priveleged minority of shareholders?
I remember how great companies and businesses used to be in the 60′s and 70′s with their social facilities, works holidays etc. Businesses and shops used to be decorated really well for Christmas. The B&C Co-op in Sheffield used to have a brilliant Christmas ride and Davy United’s used to have a really nice childrens party. However all this changed when Margaret Thatcher got her hands on the country and sold it to the highest bidder and foreign businesses, many of today’s problems are a result of her short term decisions, decisions I would never have made as a 48 year old. I am an ex Tory and I believe there is a half way house between capitalism and socialism.
What UKIP objects to are people coming to this country full stop, they hide their racism behind the European question. Multiculturalism is several differing cultures living together, the ghetto situation Timawells calls it was created by the British establishment. As a youngster growing up in Sheffield in the fifties and sixties when the government had actively encouraged immigration from so called Commonwealth countries. I saw signs in windows of doss houses openly stating no niggers or paddies, this is what Ukip would have us go back to. In Sheffield the Afro-Caribbeans stayed in the Burngreave area as did a lot of the Asian people. They had no choice but to stick together both for their own safety and it was the only place they could live.
David Smith
Firtleberry. The argument that people are racist because they object to mass immigration is wearing very thin, the country was too full 15 years ago. I had a good Indian friend at HSBC who introduced me to Salsa dancing and I have worked with many Indians, who have told me much about their culture and how dogmatic it can be. I was only born in 1964, but when I look back on things, we should have looked at ways of modernising industry rather than importing cheap labour to do the dirty work, perhaps the 80′s wouldn’t have been so traumatic for us. It’s funny how migrant workers weren’t brought into coal mining communities to work down pits in the 50′s, 60′s, 70′s and 80′s.
Even in the 60′s we had too many work shy people, who could have filled many of these jobs. I am a great believer in sharing around the dirty work, rather than expecting the same person to do it all the time. I can’t understand the reason for mass immigration the last 10 years, when 4 million of our people were unemployed, but then again I see the Labour party wanted to swell their ranks and big business trying to keep down their costs for maximum profits.
Dave Smith, I don’t know what part of Sheffield you came from but I worked there all my working life and I have never heard such a load of crap in my life. Afro-Caribeans lived and now live in ALL parts of Sheffield as do the Asian population. You make it sound as though Sheffielders created ghettos which is absolute nonsense. You seem to revel in creating racist situiations that do not exist. State facts, not fiction!
Integration is the best way to create a united nation. If those things happened David, then that is of course sad but we live in a very different country now compared with the 50s and 60s. I personally have always been suspicious of UKIP, but I agree with Ed Miliband that people who come to Britain should adopt and accept the customs, traditions and law of the land, which includes learning the language. If a British person went to a country such as India or Pakistan, or indeed any other, we’d have to respect their laws, customs etc.
Brother Omar, I think you are so right.
Unfortunately the Brits attitude to foreigners, e.g. Spain is thus: “Eyup Manuel, dos beers per favor, n a burger wi chips, if tha pleezes”.
Most male/female Brits abroad that I’ve seen/heard are fat, lazy, tatooed, indolent, inebirated, offensive and utterly repugnant.
Watch “Costa Del Crime” iffen tha doubts me.
The decision to remove a young children from a foster family because they were members of UKIP is wrong and rightly has been condemned. Though this article from Helen Pidd in the Guardian suggests that there might be more to this case than meets the eye.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/30/ukip-row-many-reasons-children-removed
I think we should wait till the investigation is complete. Having said that head must roll and a clean out of Rotherham Social Services is well over due. First the grooming scandal and this case are things that we know about, God knows what else might be going on.
@firtleberry.
‘What UKIP objects to are people coming to this country full stop, they hide their racism behind the European question’. Really?
· End mass, uncontrolled immigration. UKIP calls for an immediate five-year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement. We aspire to ensure that any future immigration does not exceed 50,000 people p.a.
· Regain control of UK borders. This can only be done by leaving the European Union. Entry for work will be on a time-limited work permit only. Entry for non-work related purposes (e.g. holiday or study) will be on a temporary visa. Overstaying will be a criminal offence.
· Ensure all EU citizens who came to Britain after 1 January 2004 are treated in the same way as citizens from other countries (unless entitled to ‘Permanent Leave to Remain’). Non- UK citizens travelling to or from the UK will have their entry and exit recorded. To enforce this, the number of UK Borders Agency staff engaged in controlling immigration will be tripled to 30,000.
http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/1499-immigration-and-asylum-ukip-policy
I suggest you do more research before posting false and erroneous information.
Colin do you know what time and place the next Rotherham Ukip meeting is? I am wondering who their candidate will be in Rothervalley and want to ensure that they get the maximum support for 2015.
Timawells you people always put forward the same spurious argument that the country is full, without giving us the figures to prove it. You also have to bring forth the token friend in an attempt to prove you are not racist. You state that migrant workers were not brought into coal mining, perhaps you would like to inform the Ukraine’s and the Polish miners who worked in the coal fields after the end of the 2nd World War of this pathetic ill informed staement. I did not have to wait long for you to show your true colours, “too many work shy people”. Perhaps you would like to bring in labour camps to force the workshy to work.
Jim Fletcher I did state facts. Go to Sheffield go onto the Wicker, then walk up Spital Hill follow Burngreave road all the way down to the Northern General Hospital. Until you have done this your point that you worked in Sheffield is quite frankly “crap”. This is the area I was born in and spent a great deal of my adult life in. Unless you believe that the working class of Sheffield are the establishment you have no right to accuse me of blaming the working class of Sheffield or anywhere else for that matter of creating ghettos. My point is that during this period workers were being fed lies by the right wing political parties and press, that the migrants to this country were here to take our jobs our houses and that the country was full to overflowing. Some workers of course believed this, as they do now. This is proved by the scare mongering done by UKIP and the other right wing parties of today, this helps to fan the flames of racism and they should desist from it. Of course Jim Fletcher there are people from all differing racial backgrounds living in other areas of Sheffield, but this does not prove that my original position on the historical facts regarding ghettos is untrue.
Jim answered the question, when 4 million people are unemployed and a further 2 million in part time work. These people need to be looked after first. Real jobs that are fairly paid need to be created. I believe the minimum wage is an insult to people who have decades of work experience. I hate corporate Britain exploiting the work force and paying their tax’s to Brussels, which doesn’t get re-invested in the UK.. There is far too much reliance on the welfare state in the UK, 100,000 of bankers have lived off the fat of the land, but millions of people shouldn’t need to live off welfare from year to year, it should be for emergency only. France which is twice our size, has a smaller population. When RMBC start wanting to double the size of Anston and Dinnington, for the over spill from Sheffield and Rotherham, then there is a big issue. Going back to migrant Labour in Dinnington, there were very few polish and ukrainians, but they integrated fully into our community, they were escaping the socialist beast called the USSR, which the EUSSR is modelled on. I would be quite happy to marry a migrant, if she had the same values as me, there are some beautiful Indian Ladies, the racist card is wearing thin. Nigel Farage is married to a German. I dislike the fat bankers as much as the looney left.
Dear Firtleberry, firstly I would suggest that a country is full when it has insufficient work for everybody and cannot support itself economically as we are now. I would therefore say that, yes, we are full and cannot take on any more people.
Secondly, it is now quite obvious to me that you were brought up in Burngreave and actually failed to see beyond that area. I worked in Burngreave as I did in all other areas of Sheffield from the very early 1960′s into the 1990′s and I am sure that people lived where they wanted to live, not forced to live where they were told and certainly not for the spurious reasons you give. It appears that if someone does not agree with your, what I call racist bigotry, you attack them by alleging they are the racist ones.
I am not a UKIP supporter but I do agree with many of their policies including getting out of Europe and more controlled immigration.
Jim Fletcher you are very naive if you believe that during the period I was talking about people lived where they liked. I did not say they lived where they were told to live either, I said they lived where they could and they needed to band together. The government had coerced theses people to come to Britain with the promise of a better life, they were not interested in the welfare of these people just their labour. There were no housing provisions put in place for them, it took them many years before they could even get on the council housing list never mind secure one. Your oxymoron “racist bigotry” has no relevance what so ever. If we take your hypothesis that a country is full when it has insufficient work for everybody and can not support itself economically, all capitalist countries are therefore full. No capitalist country, by its very nature, has full employment, if it had it would mean no competition for jobs which is anathema to capitalism. Taking your theory to its ultimate it would mean clearing out of Britain all those who were not born here, ethnic cleansing, then we pull up the draw bridge, would this give us full employment? Who would consume the goods produced? Bearing in mind that if we pulled up the drawbridge on our economy then other counties would not allow our exports into their markets, this would mean that we eventually implode. Then dear Jim Fletcher what would we do? The blame does not lay with the people who have moved here but with the system itself. Keynes knew that the way to get the economy moving is to create jobs, to put it in very simple terms if the government embarks on large infrastructure building projects it creates jobs. It creates jobs for those who do the building, jobs for those who manufacture the goods used in the projects plus those earning wages spend them on goods this then gets the economy moving, plus the workers will be paying taxes. The best we can hope for though is an unemployment figure of around 3-4% but according to Jim Fletcher this would still mean the country is full.
Dave Smith
Well done Dave, you appear to have found the answer in the Marxist (or is it Marx Brothers) Bumper Fun Book of Replies. Take a look at all the capitalist countries in a similar situation to us; Australia, America, Canada for example. They don’t allow mass immigration as we do, they take control for the very reason I pointed out. If they cannot support themselves, let alone more people coming into their country, then it’s simple, they control immigration.
You have a very perverted view of the immigration policy in the 1950′s/60′s. These people came to Britain for a better life and, if they worked for it as there was plenty of work, they got one, much better than the life they had in their own countries. Don’t forget, we were all poor then, just after the war with poor housing and limited food supplies. I don’t know how old you are, but I remember it well as I was born during the war.
Who mention sending people, not born in this country, back to where they came from? Only you! It is you who is the contradiction in terms, the racist bigot.
Climb down off your high horse Dave and start to accept the fact that Britain is in the state it is because of the total incompetence of one man, Gordon Brown aided by Blair, who ruined this country financially with uncontrolled borrowing, selling off our gold reserves at rock bottom prices and many other useless actions which you appear to support. Though I don’t support many of the policies of this current government, I do realise that they have to take action and one of them is to control immigtaion as we cannot support more people coming into this country on the limited finances we have.