Difficult to disagree with 43 Bishops?

SIR – Next week, members of the House of Lords will debate the Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill.

The Bill will mean that for each of the next three years, most financial support for families will increase by no more than 1 per cent, regardless of how much prices rise.

This is a change that will have a deeply disproportionate impact on families with children, pushing 200,000 children into poverty. A third of all households will be affected by the Bill, but nearly nine out of 10 families with children will be hit.

These are children and families from all walks of life. The Children’s Society calculates that a single parent with two children, working on an average wage as a nurse would lose £424 a year by 2015. A couple with three children and one earner, on an average wage as a corporal in the British Army, would lose £552 a year by 2015.

However, the change will hit the poorest the hardest. About 60 per cent of the savings from the uprating cap will come from the poorest third of households. Only 3 per cent will come from the wealthiest third.

If prices rise faster than expected, children and families will no longer have any protection against this. This transfers the risk of high inflation rates from the Treasury to children and families, which is unacceptable.

Children and families are already being hit hard by cuts to support, including those to tax credits, maternity benefits, and help with housing costs. They cannot afford this further hardship penalty. We are calling on the House of Lords to take action to protect children from the impact of this Bill.

Rt Rev Tim Stevens, Bishop of Leicester

Rt Rev John Packer, Bishop of Ripon and Leeds

Rt Rev Graham James, Bishop of Norwich

Rt Rev Paul Butler, Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham

Rt Rev Richard Frith, Bishop of Hull

Rt Rev Nick Baines, Bishop of Bradford

Rt Rev David Rossdale, Bishop of Grimsby

Rt Rev Alan Smith, Bishop of St Albans

Rt Rev David Walker, Bishop of Dudley

Rt Rev Michael Langrish, Bishop of Exeter

Rt Rev Humphrey Southern, Bishop of Repton

Rt Rev Chris Edmondson, Bishop of Bolton

Rt Rev David Urquhart, Bishop of Birmingham

Rt Rev Jonathan Clark, Bishop of Croydon

Rt Rev Trevor Willmott, Bishop of Dover

Rt Rev Adrian Newman, Bishop of Stepney

Rt Rev John Wraw, Bishop of Bradwell

Rt Rev James Newcome, Bishop of Carlisle

Rt Rev Peter Burrows, Bishop of Doncaster

Rt Rev Keith Sinclair, Bishop of Birkenhead

Rt Rev Clive Young, Bishop of Dunwich

Rt Rev Tim Thornton, Bishop of Truro

Rt Rev Steven Croft, Bishop of Sheffield

Rt Rev Jonathan Gledhill, Bishop of Lichfield

Rt Rev John Inge, Bishop of Worcester

Rt Rev Peter Price, Bishop of Bath and Wells

Rt Rev Stephen Conway, Bishop of Ely

Rt Rev Alistair Redfern, Bishop of Derby

Rt Rev James Langstaff, Bishop of Rochester

Rt Rev James Bell, Bishop of Knaresborough

Rt Rev Mike Hill, Bishop of Bristol

Rt Rev Christopher Chessun, Bishop of Southwark

Rt Rev Nigel Stock, Bishop of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich

Rt Rev John Pritchard, Bishop of Oxford

Rt Rev Ian Brackley, Bishop of Dorking

Rt Rev Jonathan Frost, Bishop of Southampton

Rt Rev Stephen Platten, Bishop of Wakefield

Rt Rev David Thomson, Bishop of Huntingdon

Rt Rev John Holbrook, Bishop of Brixworth

Rt Rev Tim Dakin, Bishop of Winchester

Rt Rev Peter Hancock, Bishop of Basingstoke

Rt Rev Andrew Proud, Bishop of Reading

Rt Rev Anthony Priddis, Bishop of Hereford

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37 Responses to Difficult to disagree with 43 Bishops?

  1. Anonymous says:

    And in Rotherham the very well fed, over paid Labour politicians will have their snouts in the trough planning the next feast for the Mayor.

  2. Hard to argue but you can bet Cameron and Osbourne will find a way to placate their big business, banker pals over this one. Over 200 Foodbanks started in UK in last 18 months – and these are just the ones under the Trussel Trust banner. This country is going backwards thanks to our worship of the invisible hand of the Market. Thankfully there are a few people left who think God’s invisible hand will be revealed. Watch out for global economic collapse. But this judgement on our rampant greed can be averted: there is time for the rich with their billions and millions to dig as proprtionately deep as the poor. Still time for capitalists and bankers to rediscover their vocation to invest (in lending, paying tax, charity and investment in physically real industry not mythical financial transactions) to stimulate growth. It is much more feckless to sit on a pile of wealth that you could not spend in 2,000 lifetimes just to soothe your ego than to spend a few quid benefit on a few ciggies. This is not politics of envy because it is impossible to envy those (like the super rich) who live on a different planet. The New Testament has plenty to say about God being on the side of the poor and opposed to the rich . Looks like the Bishops have finally caught up with their master! Good on them.

    • Anonymous says:

      These bishops sit in wealth and those in Sheffied and Doncaster are whited sepulchres: fair without and dead mens’ bones and all corruption within, straining at gnats whilst swallowing camels. At no point have the stood up for anyone who really needed it in an unfashionable and dangerous predicament ( like the Rotherham girls groomed) that might affect their ‘respectability’ and challenge their liberal mores rooted in the apostate social gospel. They are enslaved to their own devices and desires, the desires of this world.

      They are Princes of Tyre.

      • revsimcop says:

        At no point – except this particular one. A gospel that fails to speak out for the disadvantaged but takes refuge in piety is surely the apostate one – “In so far as you did it for the least of these…. etc

      • Anonymous says:

        The bile is directed at the leaders not Christ or his loyal followers. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. Sheffield diocese is will not only point out the docrine of forgiveness with its attendant caveats. They have lost the courage of their convictions, as has almost all the Cof E. Forgiveness has its price. They will not defend the truth because there is no truth in them.

  3. Jim Fletcher says:

    Though it would be nice to hand out more money to these people, no one spares a thought for those pensioners who worked hard all their lives and went without to put money into a pension pot only to have it “stolen” by Gordon Brown resulting in them receiving around 50% less than was forecast for them. Also, these people still have to pay income tax on the small amount they now receive to pay for the welfare of others.
    In addition to that, if these pensioners have saved a little money and hope for additional income from interest on their savings, there is next to nothing for them. We are all suffering for the total incompetence of the last Labour government, Gordon Brown in particular, who left this Country bankrupt!

    • A regular reader says:

      Jim says: “Though it would be nice to hand out more money to these people, ”
      Increasing benefits in line with inflation is not “handing out more money”
      Increasing benefits at below the rate of inflation is “handing out less money”
      … nearly nine out of 10 families with children will be hit.

      Jim says ” if these pensioners have saved a little money and hope for additional income from interest on their savings, there is next to nothing for them. ”
      There is a broad correlation between inflation rates and interest rates. Go figure.

      Jim,
      We can all play “what-about-ism” and “thread-derail-ism”, but it gets boring and there’s no way we can roll back history; so let’s focus on current government policies. OK?

      • Jim Fletcher says:

        Sorry regular reader but I think you live in cloud couckoo land, start to live in the real world!This is a real case, Young single mum with 2 children of school age living in a 4 bed rented house in a decent area, rent around £500 per month paid for her by way of benefits. Drives her own car! Her kids had more toys than the rest of the kids on the road whose parents worked. Out clubbing most weekends whilst family look after her kids. Has 2 great big dogs which she never looked after or cleaned up after. Eventually left the rented house wrecked and filthy. All paid for out of taxes taken from what little pensions we have worked for all our lives. Get real, there is no real poverty in this Country, only people who can spend money they don’t have, just like the last government.

  4. Foggytownprince says:

    Interesting but let’s face it, there should be no poverty in this country. Some plead poverty and yet they have a Sky dish outside and all the accoutrements of a technology palace inside. Maybe some of the money would be better spent on food instead of cigs, beer, nail bars, tattoo shops and the like. I suspect some of the really poor are the ones that have poorly paid jobs, not lack of benefits, but at least they have their self respect. The Bishops should keep their noses out in their fat cat palaces and as for the Mayor’s feast, the cost should be donated to a shelter.

    State benefits should be a helping hand up not treated as a regular income because tax payers are getting fed up of these greedy citizens.

    • A regular reader says:

      The (change in) legislation applies to a range of benefits and tax credits, including income support, child benefit, working tax credits and child tax credits.
      That includes your ” the ones that have poorly paid jobs” and those who would be working if the economy were in a better shape.

  5. Colin Tawn says:

    The Children’s Society looks at poverty in a different light than most of us. To the CS ‘poverty’ is defined as anything below 60% of median earnings. The overuse of the emotive word ‘poverty’ is rather sickening when real poverty is rife throughout the African continent. How many British families living in ‘poverty’ have to walk 3+ miles for water or share a communal tap? How many British families cannot get medical aid almost immediately? Or cannot afford footwear and clothing for their children? Or do not have a radio or tv set? How many British children have to stay in their local areas waiting for someone to teach them a rudimentary education?
    As each year passes the Children’s Society definition of poverty rises in line with earnings but it is only to be expected from a left leaning organisation.
    The 43 Bishops should be concentrating on the spiritual and temporal needs and welfare of our citizens not interfering in politics. The CofE is currently exempt from equality legislation so I would argue it’s representatives in the HoL cannot discuss poverty whilst excluding women from their ranks. Uless the Bishops are concerned only with male poverty?
    Bishops live rent-free in their diocese, and to cover additional costs of running their historic homes they can draw upon allowances covered by the Church Commissioners, who manage the Church’s £5 billion property and shares portfolio.
    They are provided with official cars for travelling around their diocese, and can claim for entertaining guests, minor repairs to their homes, heating and lighting, gardeners and cleaners.
    The same question that is asked of MP’s can also be addressed to Bishops;
    What do you know about poverty in Britain today?

    • A regular reader says:

      Colin
      Please don’t include me for one in your view that “the Children’s Society looks at poverty in a different light than most of us”.
      There are two measures – Absolute Poverty and Relative Poverty and in this case the CS is (quite rightly) using a measure of Relative Poverty. Defining it in terms of a % of median (as opposed to other measures of “average”) is correct – given the highly skew income distribution in pretty well any country. These are standard international measures, nothing to do with the CS being “left leaning”. What is a “right-leaning” children’s charity? Eton College?
      Sure sometimes Relative Measures creates apparent anomalies, – and in both directions – poverty levels in UK went down in 2010/11 – ‘cos overall median income did. In your African continent, one of the leading indicators of famine are rising incomes (measured in terms of tax receipts) as people sell off their assets at market – mainly livestock.

      Is relief of poverty not a valid concern for those “concentrating on the [ ...] temporal needs and welfare” of others. It is after all a valid charitable objective, and we all know were charitable objectives came from.

    • I think you will find that most Bishops have given up their palaces ana, as for all the other Business perks, these are usually to compensate that, compared to most “fat cats” their salaries are nowhere near commensuarte with their responsibilities. As for butting out of politics and concentrating on spiritual issues, I wonder how you can divorce spiritual and economic issues in any moral sense. If so, why are Christians instructed to feed the hungry etc etc. Why not walk on by the other side of the road and say “sorry mate, I am not going to feed you or speak out for you because I can only look after your spiritual needs!”? Ridiculous! The ancient Hebrew world view sees no divorce between the spiritual and practical. They are one and the same. There was a woman on the news recently who faced the prospect of finding an extra £250 because of a rise in her poll tax. She broke down in tears because she faced the choice between not eating or not heating her home. Were her tears not indicative of a spiritual need? Try living on benefits for more than a week and see how it blights your spirit. It is impossible to live only to exist – a spiritual problem. Also read the Book of James in the New Testament. He says that religion that fails to care for people’s practical needs is worthless so that is not for me thanks. While I take the point that comparitive to the developing world noone in the UK is in poverty, you need to look in the opposite direction at the Tories’ friends who are escaping from the current crisis with their hundreds of millions and billions intact and dodging their tax obligations while the poorest in the UK are hit hardest. It is also the tax paying middle and working classes who support aid to the developing world with a larger proportion of their disposable income while many, who could easily afford to give to charity, probably would like to cut the overseas aid budget.

  6. Colin Tawn says:

    I did not say we should not be concerned with helping to feed the hungry or offer any help to those less fortunate. Aid organisations,including the CS, should be apolitical. Their aims should be geared towards help not political point scoring. If I was a newcomer to British politics the CS would have me believe children started suffering ‘Relative Poverty’ only since 2010 which is clearly absolute rubbish. The point made about tax dodging is entirely separate from,and irrelevant to this topic IMV. I have lived on benefits, so I do know how to budget on a reduced income. The biggest difference was we were mortgage payers and had a damn sight less to live on compared to families in council and/or social housing.
    Perhaps the Bishops would be advised to follow Mathew 19:21-
    Jesus answered “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” …
    I make monthly donations to Christian Aid and Oxfam, it is’nt a lot but I give what I can. If every adult person in Britain gave 50p weekly to a charity of their choice everyone would benefit.

    • revsimcop says:

      Colin – How can tax dodging be irrelevant to this when these measures make the poorest take the burden while tax dodging allows those most capable not to take responsibility? Why should the poorest, who had nothing to do with engineering the current crisis, pay even more proportinately? Also, the super rich need to hear the words of Matthew 9:21 far more than any Bishop imho – it was in the same context that Jesus made an observation about camels and needles…

  7. Another thing to bear in mind – the Bishops are not just talking for themselves but are representative of many people who know a lot about poverty – inner city/rural parishes and priests serving them, Christians and people of other faiths and none who actually care about the poorest in society unlike the Government who don’t give a damn, etc etc. Also, since when did being relatively comfortable become a disqualification for speaking out? The CEOs of Oxfam, TEARfund, CAFOD and Christian Aid are probably on bigger salaries than most clergy and even Bishops but we would not not discount their opinion on poverty issues. Also, on the equality issue: the house of Bishops actually voted in favour of women Bishops so they are not disqualified from speaking out on that score. Is it a case of finding any excuse not to listen to an uncomfortable truth?

  8. A regular reader says:

    “Is it a case of finding any excuse not to listen to an uncomfortable truth?” Beautifully put Rev.!

    1. I would hope that the CEOs of major crisis-responding NGOs are on bigger salaries that most clergy – it’s a really really tough job.
    (I seem to remember that Bluebell were offering around £60k for a replacement for S. Champion MP ).

    2. I’m surprised that there was no mention of Save the Children UK in any of the comments above. I was in Ethiopia during the “Mengistu” famine years, and they were by far the most effective of the NGO’s there at that time. Save the Children UK’s Ethiopia-based Chief Medical Officer Dr. Dravindra got as close as anyone could have got to being the hero of those so so painful years.
    You can read a bit about him in Peter Gill’s excellent book “A year in the death of Africa”.
    (.. and it is well worth the read).

  9. Joe Robinson says:

    I must applaud these bishops and indeed rev simon copley. The working classes in this country are suffering. We are villified so that the rulling classes can justify forcing us to pay for the folly of their big business and banker friends. We at the bottom did not cause this, those at the top did. The banking bailout cost 16000 pounds for every man, woman and child in Britain. And Osbourne proudly says “we are reducing 80 percent of the deficit through cuts and just 20 percent through tax rises”. How can this possibly be the right thing to do? Cut the NHS, privatise schools, devastate council budgets, the bedroom tax but no more tax for the rich that can afford it and more to the point caused the crisis, this is the issue the bishops have identified, millions being needlessly plunged into poverty. To those attacking these men I say; you only tell them to focus on spiritual issues because you know that they are right, and that people might just listen to them.

  10. revsimcop says:

    Thanks RR and Joe – was trying to remember the other big development agency which is STC of course! It went right out of my head. I agree NGO Execs (and clergy, teachers, nurses, miners, social workers, youth workers etc) should be paid better. It’s one of the fallacies of the market system that people who are less socially responsible get paid a lot more (bankers eg) – apparently the Market does NOT distribute wealth and resources in the best possible way because the theory of Market Economics is utter crap – it does not take account of human nature (greed) or allow for responsibility. How wrong Margaret Thatcher was! And we are now eating the fruit of her bitter legacy.

    To tell Bishops to mind their own business is the classic Tory defence against anyone saying something they do not want to hear – especially on moral issues. Unfortunately for them I think ordinary people are no longer in the mood to be told by their “betters” (ha!) to be meek, good boys.

    Unfortunately too the Bullingdonians look like they will now have a resurgently critical Catholic Church, if the UK RCs take their lead from a new Pope. Apparently he is not afraid to speak out vs obscene wealth inequalities which he calls a “sin crying out against heaven”. Interestingly he takes rthe name Francis, another saint who was renowned for siding with the poor and taking the rich to task.

    This time tho I have to agree with Colin that their message will hit home all the harder if they get their own house in order re riches and abuse first. But I think this guy will take the lead on cleansing his own back yard. Interesting times ahead…

    • Anonymous says:

      They are reactors not pro actors. They bemoan at the old establishment rather than at the new – which they are part of: neo liberal, post modern, apostate and corrupt. They have ceased being warriors for Christ and become supine communitarians.

  11. revsimcop says:

    Interesting view anonymous – i recently attended the Christian resources exhibition in Manchester in my capacity as a fundraiser. Our stand, where we offer fundraising consultancy and practical help, was inundated with enquiries from local churches who were active in their communities to address social/economic hardship, including many Anglicans. In some hard-pressed communities, the church action on the ground was the only social structure actually holding back anarchy and total breakdown as state run institutions cracked under the strain. So hardly just reactive. Organisations like Church Action on Poverty and Church Urban Fund are also working pro-actively in poorest communities and coming up with sound and fair policies as are various Christian Democratic parties.Of course Bishops are going to be reactive because they are not the policy enforcers.

  12. A regular reader says:

    “… holding back anarchy”.
    Rev,
    I hope you are not referring to the political philosophy of Godwin, Bakunin, Kropotkin and Proudhon? :-)

  13. revsimcop says:

    I mean anarchy as an adjective not a Noun – we could do with a few Bakuninites. Anarchy might be better than the sort of Govt we have at the mo!

  14. Dialectical materialism and Anarcho-syndicalism ? And why not indeed !
    After all, “The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is however, to change it.” :)
    Solidarity ! Direct Action ! Self Management !
    Who needs representatives to government positions ?
    Long live the Maltby Spring, the Anston Spring and the whole of Rotherham Spring !

  15. addendum : Godwin, Bakunin, Kropotkin and Proudhon ? Think Rothpol readers have been giving Wikipedia some hammer ! (or hammer and sickle even ;) )

    • A regular reader says:

      …well, I certainly had to use google to get the correct spelling of “Proudhon”, but then I am dislexic.

  16. Sorry to have to correct your spelling here regular reader but I think you mean “dyslexic” :)

    • rothpol says:

      I think it might have been a deliberate mistake for the purposes of demonstration. Or I might be wrong. Whatever the case, expressing an opinion is what it is all about, not whether the English and spelling are correct!

      • A regular reader says:

        What’s the problem? I only got one letter wrong.
        Never ever understood why we need both “i”s and “y”s. :-(

  17. Thanks for that rothpol.
    It is generally accepted on t’internet and in text messaging that a :) accompanying a comment denotes the comment as part of a jokey repartee.
    No offence intended to A regular reader – which I am sure was not taken.

    Note : don’t recall the person who made comments about the standard of English of a commenter on another thread being ‘ticked off’. :) :)

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