Rawmarsh By-Election – Caven Vines States The Truth!

General Affidavit under Oath

“I, Caven Vines, Am a resident of 30,Whitley_Road_Kimberworth_Rotherham_South_Yorkshire_S61_2HL

And do hereby certify, swear or affirm, and declare that I am competent to give the following declaration based on my personal knowledge, unless otherwise stated, and that the following facts and things are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

That I Caven Vines have never been a member of the British National Party (BNP).

I was a member of a group called Council Watch, which operated in Rotherham, from March.1999..and until I left in  September 2004 When we disbanded Council Watch …….

Marlene Guest was also a member of this group until she was asked to leave in 2003, at which time any association I had with her through Council Watch ceased.   During her time as a member of Council Watch she was a Member of the Lib/Dems and a Rotherham Independent Candidate and at some time later joined the BNP – which she still supports.   I have not had any association with the BNP or any of its members ever.”

WITNESS my signature this _Monday 29th of April 2013
Caven Vines
Signature of Declarant

Rothpol is surprised by this emphatic denial, that he has ever been a member of the BNP. We already know, Caven has never been a member of the BNP and no one at Rotherham Politics would wish to suggest otherwise.

This development is most intriguing and am sure readers would be interested to know why Caven felt it necessary to go as far as swearing an Affidavit?

35 thoughts on “Rawmarsh By-Election – Caven Vines States The Truth!

  1. I am not and never have been a member of any political party or protest group, neither am I a personal friend, or a close acquaintance of Caven Vines. Yet I can honestly state that during is term of office as an independent councillor for the then “Central Rotherham Ward” he did a first class job for the ward, solving many problems for the residents that past Labour Councillors had failed to solve; and being independent he did not have to follow the diktats of a party.”He was his own man.” He was certainly more trustworhy than the convicted thug and bully that we have at present in Rotherham West that replaced the Rotherham Central Ward. The people of Rawmarsh could do a lot worse than to have him as their councillor.


  2. During the build-up to an election one of the dirty tricks is to falsely associate one of the candidates with what some may think is a disreputable group, and thus dissuade voters. Should the target candidate not deny the false insinuation, it is taken as admitting. Perversely, a group will falsely claim association with a candidate in the hope that the group will gain public hubris and kudos.


  3. I have published this to let every one who reads this know the truth and to stop the suggestions and totaly unfounded allegations of other party’s dirty tricks. That I was in any way associated with BNP. so to all who tweets or have any further allegations to make about me being in any way associated with BNP be warned I will take action as I find it a very damaging slurr on my name.
    That is why I have taken this step, and if they want to play dirty I can also throw muck around
    But it does show they must be running scared.

    Any comments I make I will stand by them as long as people and news papers print them in the full context to what they refer to and not just cherry pick.
    and any one who know’s me know’s I call a spade a spade and when last elected to the town hall did not roll over and was out spoken, and did my job as a councillor for the community. Including going on the streets and getting the police to do thier job and clean up an area of anti social behavior,


  4. I’m tempted to believe him.

    …just would never vote UKIP because they are party bereft of ideas about things that matter like housing, education and jobs. Because they represent all of the worst elements in our people, such as the small minded little Britain types, closet and some open racists, those who think the apogee of British culture is warm beer, nice blokes who describe themselves a not really political but think we ought to hang a few people. People who support people because they aren’t as bad as the Asbo (who, blow me down, just happens to be of Asian parents). People who confuse Podiatry with Paedophilia.

    Now I don’t want to appear snobbish, but I love Rotherham and shudder when I see us being represented by the narrow minded, when there is a big world out there that we need to engage in economically. How are we going to do that with UKIP who give a very good impression of seriously disliking every other country and race?

    It is a global recession and we need global action to get out of it.


  5. William Ewart: It doesn’t matter whether Asbo’s parents are Asian or Eskimo, it’s his past behaviour that counts and no matter what any apologist for him says, that’s been disgraceful and in the eyes of very many people in your much loved town this notorious race-card player’s presence on the council reflects very badly on the Labour party!


    • You miss the point (see my several less than flattering comments about ASBO). The point is that being better than ASBO is not really praise, so why say it and why not compare him with some of the less than brilliant white councillors in Rotherham?

      P.s. Out of curiosity.

      Who did he swear the affidavit in front of, and should he prove to have lied what would be the penalty?

      I quote from an august legal journal:

      “If an affidavit is notarized or authenticated, it will also include a caption with a venue and title in reference to judicial proceedings.”

      My understanding is that an affadavit is only relevant in court or legal proceedings, where if the person lies in that affadavit there is a recourse to law and possible adverse consequences e.g. for perjury. Given that as far as I know there are no court or other proceeding pertaining to Caven Vines then really I cannot see that his affidavit has any value whatsoever.

      It is pure theatre on his part, aimed at what? A cheap headline or the avoidance of questions?

      In Rotherham politics we have tragedy, now here is UKIP bringing on the clown.


  6. Most people I know who support the UKIP view do so because of their opinions on the EU and nothing else. They want out of the money trap people like “Mrs Hitler” (Angela Merkel) have created, so that we can become a Sovereign State again and be our own Country. It’s all the other parties who want to make UKIP sound racist because they know there is a majority in this Country who want out of the EU and the only way to put the voters off is to play the race card! Dirty tricks.


  7. It is shocking that the Labour party can demonise those who have a different opinion to the one required by the establishment. Remember; Labour have sent men to war against the will of the people, sold the assets of the country, sacrificed flesh and blood for ideology, smashed free speech to pieces, wrecked the education system., driven wages and conditions to the bottom with mass immigration, emasculated the police force. sold our law and sovereignty to the lowest bidder.


  8. Get your candidate Craven Vines to answer my earlier questions:

    1. Who did he swear the affidavit in front of and the implied question “were they legally qualified”

    2. Should he prove to have lied what would be the penalty? i.e. what would be the penalty if he has lied?

    If not sworn in front of a legally qualified person, or not in any setting that make legal sense then people may be interested as to why he used the term affadavit? I’m sure Rothpol will be interested. To satisfy all curiosity why not send a scanned copy of the notarized document?

    “The Caven doth protest too much, methinks.” or his he Craven Vines?


  9. William Ewart: I got your point about supporting people because they are not as bad as ASBO, but it’s not applicable to me I don’t live in Rawmarsh and will not have a vote and I did say I was not now and never have been a member of any political party. You intoduced ASBO and his parentage not me! You say you shudder at being represented by narrow minded Little Englanders when there is a big world out there. I thought that UKIP wanted to withdraw from what is a customs union and certainly not a free market and trade with the rest of that big world. Greenland is the only country to come out of what was then a common market and with fishing as their main resource they are now in charge of that resource and are still thriving.Withdrawal from the EU would be a massive step for this country, but I am prepared to accept it, if the result of a referendum is to do so – are you!


    • A few facts about Greenland.

      Its workforce totals just over 40,000, ours is closer to 31m

      Being a dependency of Denmark means that its people are EU Citizens, and its trade with the EU (their major trading partner) is governed by the usual EU regulations

      It is also economically dependent upon subsidies from Denmark, which provide half the government revenues who in turn employ 20% of its workforce.

      Most political and economist forecast that it will soon vote for full separation from Denmark and apply for for full EU membership.

      It is so attractive that 25% of its people have chosen to live abroad, and it is suffering from a brain drain of the most educated aged between 18-25. Meaning they are dependent on foreign labour for much of their worforce – (bet you like that one:)

      They had a row with the EU when it banned seal hunting. Apparently they like bashing seals

      Get you candidate to answer my questions, get some integrity and try reading something other than your own propaganda.


  10. William Ewart: There’s so much garbage in your post I find it difficult to know where to begin!
    Greenland was given home rule from Denmark in 1979. They bash seals, but we on the other hand have alien, interlopers who blow people up who don’t believe in the barbaric rubbish they do – bet you like that! They don’t have the massive defecit we do and they are not yet a minority in their main town – bet you don’t like that! They are very closely watching Iceland who have just said they’re not going into the disastrous EU – bet you don’t like that. Unlike your posts my first post was an honest one. I don’t have candidate, or a vote, but why let the truth get in the way of a lying smear – bet you like that.


    • In hard times Fascism is never far away, and in UKIP/BNP we have the perfect proto-fascist organisation. By proto I mean that they are like being HIV positive. You know that without treatment full blown Aids is on its way.

      Malcontent & Craven are perfect examples.

      Note how Malcontent simply describes stuff he disagrees with as rubbish and doesn’t seek to counter the facts? He/she cannot see the economic differences between a country with a workforce of 40,000 and one with 31m. They present Greenland as an independent a state, when its citizens are also citizens of the EU and where the currency is the Danish Krona. Whooops, these inconvenient facts are simply flicked away with a slur.

      Noted how Cravens bitterness toward ASBO and foreign aid creeps into so much of his thinking? Notice the hatred is even starting to filter down into Rotherham and our Anti Social Behaviour Levels?

      Craven is about the politics of hate and personal bitterness, as such he reflects UKIP/BNP.

      He has no vision, offers hope, no sense that education and knowledge might help us through. No understanding that we can probably best overcome global recession by a global vision and some international partnership. A policy on health? Well lets allow smoking in Pubs again.

      He’s re-discovered that we have ASB issues in Rotherham.. Well done. Always plays well to evoke a bit of fear.So what are we to do about it? How do YOU get our young people back to work? How do YOU create a sense of community and civic responsibility among the young?

      C’mon Craven try to be positive; don’t fall back on hatred of the young as your list of hates is getting too long, You can’t fall back on racism again, even an idiot can see that local levels of ASB in the UK don’t reflect levels of immigrant population – though I’m sure you’ll have a go.

      Come on, try giving us new creative ideas that send out a message of hope. Having made yourself look silly with the Affidavit farce, tell us what YOU are going to do.


      • William Youwart: You introduced ASBO and his parentage not me. You started the “bet
        you like” that smear, but you don’t like it when it’s used on you. Stop the pretence that you are trying to pedantically make some obscure legal point or the nonsense about Greenland when it’s a blatant smear you’re employing, just as the Guardian’s article was a straight forward hatchet job that they regularly use to portray any one who is anti EU and mass immigration as a Nazi.
        Whenever the three main parties perceive a threat their dirty tricks department are brought in to dig up anything at all that can be used against that threat. They obviously think UKIP is a threat in Rawmarsh. I openly stated I was not a member of any party or protest group, but Youwart can you say the same! Where exactly are you coming from? You sound so europhile you could almost be the dearly departed Denis. If nepotism and cronyism win in Rawmarsh on the 16th May you’ll be able to say you played your part in its success!


  11. I’m more worried Caven isn’t distancing himself from UKIP; they are way too Right Wing Tory for me. (The rich pay the same taxes as the poor, cut the NHS further etc).

    He was a not bad councillor for West Central: not the best but not the worst .What went wrong? A little too much of the Marlene Guest in his statements now on Europe too.

    Puzzled by your statement Caven. Why make it?

    PS; can we have the old Caven back please; you were much more effective.


  12. Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

    In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

    Each nation’s contribution is based mainly on its Gross National Income, a measure of its economic output and earnings from overseas. The budget is spent on a range of projects to do with agriculture, fisheries, social projects and other Brussels subsidies.

    Britain’s contribution figure would have been even higher had it not been for Margaret Thatcher’s tough stance in 1984, when she famously negotiated a rebate on the basis that the vast bulk of EU spending went on agricultural subsidies and Britain received a far lower proportion of this than other nations.

    Under the terms of the rebate, Britain’s contributions were cut while other countries which benefited most from agricultural subsidies (mainly France) paid more.

    Since 1985 Britain’s rebate has been worth a total of almost €90 billion (£79 billion at today’s exchange rate). Britain’s contributions have still consistently far outstripped the benefits it receives.

    The rebate would have been higher in recent years had not Tony Blair given up part of it under pressure from EU leaders. He agreed to cut it by about 20 per cent from 2007 until the next round of budget negotiations in 2013. So far, his concession has cost Britain about £4 billion.


  13. The Uk exports aprox £186bn per year to the EU But it Inports aprox £248bn so we import aprox £62bn more than we export
    We pay in aprox 106bn Euros and receive back 46bn euros so the £53million we pay out is what we pay out after receiving our bit back
    So you can see the EU needs Britain much more than Britain needs the EU
    by the way our total defence budget is aprox £43bn and they say we cant afford to defend ourselves and have to make our armed forces redundant,
    And we cant afford to pay to repair the roads,look after our old people, ect ect ect.
    and on top of all that we pay £23m per day in oversea’s aid to country’s like South Africa, India, packistan,Argentina, the list goes on and on. But what about our own country left to go to rack and ruin you just couldn’t make it up could you


    • Hi Caven
      1. Yes there is a trade deficit between UK and the other EU countries, just as there is between UK and China or even with Norway. We are in surplus though with Saudi Arabia.
      If we were to leave the EU how would you expect these things to change?

      2. As I noted on another thread*: In 2011 UK actually contributed some €11.27bn and received some €6.57bn . So what do your figures of 106bn and 46bn represent?
      The actual “cost” is approximately £22million a day, not £53million.
      * https://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/caven-vines-a-little-local-difficulty/#comment-15524

      3. Your overseas aid figure of £23million per day seems on the high side to me, were does it come from? I thought it was closer to £18million with much of that multilateral and going out via the EU or World Bank.
      … and are you sure that we are currently giving assistance to Argentina? The World Bank has lent them money, but at commercial rates, so it really “our money”.


  14. Sally
    Thank you for your comments and complement.
    Firstly I made my comments as their is as usual a dirty tricks campain trying to discredit my reputation and linking me with the BNP I feel very strongly about this so I just put the record straight by posting a legal document ( for the benifit of William Ewart if he got out more he would know that an Affidavit when posted publicly is a legal document that can be used in evidence in a court of law and if any one would like to challenge this and prove I have lied then I wold be in contempt of court and guilty of purgery)
    Now thats out of the way
    The Old caven Vines worked his butt off when he was a councillor getting out on the streets and ridding Henley of the Gangs making the residents life hell just to name one thing I did for Rotherham West.
    But he got his reward by being replaced by a convicted thug
    Now caven vines is older and wiser but still holds the same honnest values and still believes in putting the peoples views first over the controlling Labour group.
    I beleive UKP offers an alternative But rest assured caven Vines is still the same person who calls a spade a spade and gets off his arse and gets things done


  15. William Ewart
    If you got out more into the real world instead of sitting 24/7 on the internet you would know that by posting a Affidavit in the public domain is a legal document in that if any one wishes too can use this document in evidence in a court of law and if proved to be a lie will render the person who posted it in contemt of court and would be guilty of purgery which carries a jail sentence ( ask Jeffery Archer)
    So I dont think I would like to go to jail so i am more than confident that that I am telling the truth if Not I am sure the BNP and labour Party will use it to get me out of the way Dont you may be Steve Smith will represent me.
    Does that answer you question ?


    • Craven, nope…you didn’t answer my question.

      You are simply wrong Craven. Affidavit has to relate to a specific legal process, not one that might arise and not one in your mind. Why don’t you just admit you made a mistake by being over dramatic, apologise and then its over with?

      Note the thoughts of Sally Kate Taylor and remember the old saying “if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck then it’s probably a duck.”

      And this is your problem, you talk, look and sound like a right wing little Britain type whose political position is right in there along with the BNP.

      Thank you for the comments about my “not getting out much” as I am always willing to listen to well intentioned personal advice.

      Do agree that ASBO is not a nice person (see we have common ground, surely a good thing?) But for the sake of your personal health please find closure on the matter. Bitterness is no substitute for political principles and causes indigestion..


  16. correction Please Note the posting by Anonymouse 1st May 9.46 was made by Caven Vines
    title Being a member of the European Union


  17. Sally
    You are wrong with your assumpiton that the rich would pay more than the rich if you would like to contact me i would gladly explain our stand on this or any other quiries you may have and explain in detail why I went with UKIP
    the same old Caven


    • Caven I’m only going on what Mr. Farage stated about 31% across the board. Sorry I can’t vote nationally for that or further cuts in the NHS. But I do recall you in Central West and like i said I thought you was a good ( Independent then as I recall) – and a good member of the West Central Committee. I also recall RMBC’s lack of real input in to that. I wish more did.

      You don’t have to explain why you went to UKIP – that’s your choice. Mine is while you stand for UKIP I can’t vote for you – others will – good luck.

      Dirty tricks in Rotherham – not new. Will that ever end. Sadly not.


  18. Here we go again Rotherham in the Headlines again for all the wrong reasons with the second highest nuisance behaviour in the country with 68,7% per 1000 residents the only one worst is Manchester the average in England and Wales is 42% our Labour controlled Council and Police commissioner and south yorkshire police have again failed to serve the people of Rotherham. But I ask really what can we expect when the labour controlled council and police commissioner endorse and support a Deputy leader of the Council and a Vice chairman of the Police and crime panel who has a conviction for violence what a message that sends out
    I say enough is enough Rotherham deserves much much better.


    • Hi Caven
      You’ve got the numbers a bit garbled again (e.g. they are not percentages, they are all ‘per thousand residents’ – the Advertiser also got that a bit screwed up).
      But even the real figures are not something to be proud of .
      As John Healey MP’s original press release put it:
      “SOUTH Yorkshire is one of the worst parts of the country for anti-social behaviour.
      Figures released by MP John Healey show the police force area has the second highest rate of incidents in England and Wales, behind only Greater Manchester.
      Nearly 90,000 incidents were recorded by police in 2012, which is 65.7 per 1,000 residents.
      Within South Yorkshire, Sheffield has the highest rate of offences (73.7) followed by Rotherham (68.7).
      The average in England and Wales is 42 and in Yorkshire and the Humber 43.5.”
      I can’t see how this can be linked to the past offences of the Deputy Leader of the Council.


      • regular reader: Leaving aside the years of child grooming it seems he wasn’t aware of, wasn’t he the Cabinet Member with responsibilities for children for many years on Rotherham Council and as a fair amount (not all) of anti-social behaviour is committed by children I would have thought some responsibility for this alarming high rate attaches to him.


      • Malcontent,
        I can’t even find the source that John Healey picked his data from, so I can’t even say that the rate is “alarming”. I’d really like to see the figures in context with other cities nationally.

        The fact that some areas patrolled by Manchester police, and our neighbor Sheffield have higher rates. does suggest that you can’t assign responsibility to an single individual.


    • Thanks!
      This table looks to be the best starting point:
      “Anti-social behaviour order statistics – court-level – issued 2001/11 (Comma Separated Value file – 467kb)” – going to be a few hours work with MsAccess tho’.


  19. Correction
    The Guardian news paper who published on the 25th April That UKIP stands by candidate despitye links with the BNP.
    On Friday 3rd May the Guardian printed the following retraction
    I Quote
    ” We stated that Caven Vines a candidate for UKIP in Rotherham, had close links to the BNP
    Tis was Incorrect. we apologise to Mr Vines for the error”
    Just to keep the record correct


  20. I see we have another person who opens their mouth in the press without checking their facts first
    I refer to the Party Frog Hopper Michael Sylvesters letter in this weeks Advertiser Just to put him right on a few facts
    1 Yes I did claim my allowence as a Councillor (He didnt do it for nothing either) But I did stay the course and represented my Ward and didn’t claim any additional expenses and gave to local community groups out of the allowence. DID YOU ????
    3 i WAS A COUNCILLOR FROM 2004 – 2006 (NOT 2006 – 2008)
    So Mr dont know what i stand for Sylvester Get your facts right before bad mouthing me in the press


Leave your comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.