A whole number of now UKIP councillors were serving Tory or Independent councillors when a lot of the abuse was going off.
Labour are in the biggest crisis, in this town, for as long as I can remember, in my 55 years in crisis, and I can fully understand why many will be reluctant to vote for them, but dread the thought of only alternatives being between Thatcherism and Fascism.
Funny, these were all policies ion UKIP’s manifesto at the last general election. For example, flat income tax [better for the rich]; scrapping all employment protection laws [so no maternity pay or protection]. This manifesto is the one Nigel Farage says he never bothered to read – what sort of party leader is that? And Farage is on record in the last year arguing for flat tax. Who would you trust in UKIP?
Where do they mention a flat rate of tax in this leaflet? UKIP was going to have a flat rate of tax, which would have included NI contributions. However they have since said that they will keep the top rate of tax at 40%.
“scrapping all employment protection laws [so no maternity pay or protection]”
Spoken like a true Labour supporter (You must be feeling lonely right now?).
When you go for your new glasses I suggest you re-read the part that says quite emphatically;
‘Labour nor any other party controls employment law in regard to maternity pay or working hours.
these are all governed by the EU ‘
It was the incredibly inept and incompetent Gordon Brown who signed the Lisbon treaty which finally stripped Britain of its right to a sovereign parliament.
Go figure.
Great leaflet. These were the lies that Jo Burton was peddling during her last election campaign and the unthinking fell for it. It would concern me that anybody can vote Labour after the last 16 years. As for UKIP being far right, absolute rubbish. UKIP is half way between Labour and Conservative. Even Hitler who was called far right was a socialist, these labels mean absolutely nothing.
I think you have a point about UKIP being called far right is ridiculous, but to call Hitler a socialist is just as bad as what you are complaining about. I know the word socialist was a part of the name of his party but that doesn’t make him a socialist.
Hitler = Stalin, in fact Stalin probably murdered 4 times as many people, but that was brushed under the carpet, because he wasn’t on our side of Europe and it was to our advantage to ignore. Hypocritical but the truth.
Tim of Anston/ AKA “UKIP Rothervalley supporter” etc etc.
1. On Hitler v Stalin as merchants of death
” Stalin probably murdered 4 times as many people, ” – The current view is rather different: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/
2. On the UKIP leaflet
– It is simple not true that “We would save £55m a day by leaving the EU ” . https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887
– Apart from that , the leaflet is largely just Labour-knocking copy, and until we see the UKIP 2015 Election Policy documents -due later this month I hear, I’ll suspend my belief in their credibility.
rr
totally agree, having UKIP would be like blind leading the blind most of them have no political experience and have been dragged off the streets, one or two have said they did expect to win
What political experience does Mrs Vine have, never seen her doing in the community
Look closely at the current Labour muppets = there are a helluva lot of ’em who had no prior experience and often still don’t have any experience of ‘doing anything (positive) in the community’ as you imply or try and level against Cllr Maureen Vine.
Cllr Maureen Vine is very involved and in significant ways that will emerge in time……….I suggest people in glass houses restrict from throwing stones perhaps,
There may be a non-partisan, unifying Independent alternative: a middle way between Labour’s discredited philosophy that sweeps problems under the carpet and UKIP’s simplistic rhetoric that revels in blanket condemnation and easy answers. A forensic scalpel to do some surgery on the sick body-politic rather than a feather duster or a sledgehammer. It’s going to hurt because there are no easy answers…
Rev,
I support you in that.
Rotherham Labour is far too tainted to carry on in power, and from what I see Rotherham UKIP is far far too concerned in playing the Labour blame-game to provide any positive alternative.
I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would be saying this but I believe in being honest in politics so I am going to say it. Today at the Council meeting UKIP did a bloody good job at bringing the I knew nothing brigade out of their hidey holes. They asked very pointed questions and the resolution for a new council brought good results. One being councillor Burton from Anston stating that CSE was happening in other towns and cities and if what has happened in Rotherham helps them to deal with it then it will all have been worth it. She was a member of the Children and young peoples scrutiny panel and round about 2007 or 2008 was the vice chair. Her attitude is hey don’t worry victims it has all been worth being raped abused beaten up and all the horrific things that was done to you because other towns and cities can see what has been done so me turning a blind eye really doesn’t matter. This is the calibre of the Labour councillors in Rotherham, you had to be there to see it to believe it.
Dave Smith
Burton was asked about her role in this scandal at an Anston Parish Council meeting a few months ago and asked if she was going to resign? The questioner was fearless Mr.Brian Lewis and as you might expect Burton ‘can see no reasons why she should resign’. Burton was ably assisted and supported by part time councillor Dalton and Interruptor-in-Chief St.John.
Unless councillors are voted out or faced with overwhelming evidence of their guilt in all of this then we are stuck with them until election time.
Honesty, Openess and Integrity.
Some of the Nolan Principles which are not evident at APC.
Yaffr,
Why not read and link to his actual report: http://www.reform.co.uk/content/32643/research/health/solving_the_nhs_care_and_cash_crisis
This is Robert Wilson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Warner,_Baron_Warner
see that :
“n March 2014, Warner wrote an article for the Guardian newspaper suggesting that NHS users should pay £10 a month and £20 for every night in hospital. [11] Labour swiftly rejected these ideas. Shadow Health Minister, Jamie Reed, commented: “This is not something Labour would ever consider. We believe in an NHS free at the point of use, and a Labour government will repeal David Cameron’s NHS changes that put private profit before patient care.” [12]”
see that :
Lord Warner is a director of Sage Advice Ltd, and an adviser to Xansa (a technology firm) and Byotrol (an antimicrobial company) – all of which sell or are hoping to sell services or products to the NHS, according to website Social Investigations. [13] He also took up a position with Apax Partners – one of the leading private equity investors in healthcare, according to the Alliance for Lobbying Transparency. [14]
Although I did notice in the article Ms Collins doesn’t really apologize. She simply says ‘If he didn’t say these words’, when she fully knows he didn’t.
I sort of collect screen grabs (although my real hobby’s are football and music) they highlight so much some may not want us to know.
Actually it was David Sprason who said “If he didn’t say these words” etc .
Mrs Collins said “‘When I realised this quote about Chuka Umunna was untrue, I immediately sent a tweet to apologise. It was a lapse of judgment on my part.”
Ms Collins is simply a rent a quote politician. (Too many of those about) I tend to view politicians from the stance of what they do or don’t do. A little enlightenment on her solutions on one or two issues would be welcome rather than soundbites. Personally, I haven’t forgot her previous intervention on here were she stated Private Eye was full anti UKIP propaganda and for the true facts we should read the UKIP website. Like as if. The party political websites and spouttings – of all parties – are not exactly impartial. Her statement probably says more about her state of indoctrination than I ever can. Message to Ms Collins – forget the tittle tattle and point scoring; do something positive.
As for REVS quote: “There may be a non-partisan, unifying Independent alternative: a middle way between Labour’s discredited philosophy that sweeps problems under the carpet and UKIP’s simplistic rhetoric that revels in blanket condemnation and easy answers. A forensic scalpel to do some surgery on the sick body-politic rather than a feather duster or a sledgehammer. It’s going to hurt because there are no easy answers…”
I agree 100% with Rev. Labour, UKIP and all have to look unto themselves. All the serving council members during the period do so too. (As do the officials at RMBC and more). Many will be faultless for sure – but all parties / independents (and departments and agencies) have someone who knew and did nothing. That will come out in time. Party politics in this issue are meaningless – it’s the truth that is paramount. So to all parties and independent involved I say – stop gesture politics – look at the issue not rhetoric – forget your own personal kudos / gain and search your own souls too – it’s the truth that matters – not how many votes you may or may not get in what is a Rotten Borough on so many levels.
As for those that dismiss Dr John Carlisle’s comments about the culture of statistics meaning more than the welfare of children; and the role that played in the CSE scandal. . Do so at your peril. This is also central to the issue; as are the contracts to provide services (and profit) that result from this warped and business outcome led process. The support network is fragmented – and when statistics become king as the mean to gain contacts that is all that matters.
In the outsourced Social and Community field competition (became) becomes all – the maintenance of contracts for the contractors – good news for the overseers – the only consideration. Performance is not (was not) governed by what you actually do or how you helped the most in need (That takes staff, time and is costly) – but how you hit the easy targets at the lowest cost. This issue was raised in Rotherham (and nationally) as far back as 1995. and so too were the warnings regarding how such a culture would lead to people needing help, including young people at risk, going ignored for profit or company / charity gain. Sadly these warnings were correct.
In short, for anyone who doesn’t know how the community /social support network operates nationally, (and locally) think of a ‘care based’ A4E, G4S, ATOS ad infinitum, include the statistical fiddles, add company contract protectionism and profit motive, promote the empire building, take away the inter agency communication and work ethic, stir in a large amount of staff bullying for those that warned would happen and you get the recipe for a large part of what occurred within the cover up. (By the way Joyce Thacker’s little crew were responsible for over seeing much of this – and Mr Kimber’s HR Department were responsible for ignoring it and paying lip service to complaints and joining in the bullying)
Ms Jay’s investigation didn’t really cover this; it should have. Dr Carlisle is right. You have to dig deep regarding this issue to get to the root of the problem with inter agency working. Otherwise it will simply carry on and many who colluded will sneak away unchallenged, carry on regardless and make a quick buck waiting for the next scandal to occur somewhere else.
Finally, concentrate on RMBC alone and you encourage further cover ups. The whole system needs a national inquiry. There are a lot of guilty men and women you will never have heard of who have no accountability to voters or the local councilors – simply shareholders. The system is even more rotten than the Borough itself.
A whole number of now UKIP councillors were serving Tory or Independent councillors when a lot of the abuse was going off.
Labour are in the biggest crisis, in this town, for as long as I can remember, in my 55 years in crisis, and I can fully understand why many will be reluctant to vote for them, but dread the thought of only alternatives being between Thatcherism and Fascism.
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I totally agree with you Brian, Caven Vine was Rotherham West Councillor, was he sleep during that period
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Funny, these were all policies ion UKIP’s manifesto at the last general election. For example, flat income tax [better for the rich]; scrapping all employment protection laws [so no maternity pay or protection]. This manifesto is the one Nigel Farage says he never bothered to read – what sort of party leader is that? And Farage is on record in the last year arguing for flat tax. Who would you trust in UKIP?
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Where do they mention a flat rate of tax in this leaflet? UKIP was going to have a flat rate of tax, which would have included NI contributions. However they have since said that they will keep the top rate of tax at 40%.
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“scrapping all employment protection laws [so no maternity pay or protection]”
Spoken like a true Labour supporter (You must be feeling lonely right now?).
When you go for your new glasses I suggest you re-read the part that says quite emphatically;
‘Labour nor any other party controls employment law in regard to maternity pay or working hours.
these are all governed by the EU ‘
It was the incredibly inept and incompetent Gordon Brown who signed the Lisbon treaty which finally stripped Britain of its right to a sovereign parliament.
Go figure.
LikeLike
Great leaflet. These were the lies that Jo Burton was peddling during her last election campaign and the unthinking fell for it. It would concern me that anybody can vote Labour after the last 16 years. As for UKIP being far right, absolute rubbish. UKIP is half way between Labour and Conservative. Even Hitler who was called far right was a socialist, these labels mean absolutely nothing.
LikeLike
I think you have a point about UKIP being called far right is ridiculous, but to call Hitler a socialist is just as bad as what you are complaining about. I know the word socialist was a part of the name of his party but that doesn’t make him a socialist.
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Hitler = Stalin, in fact Stalin probably murdered 4 times as many people, but that was brushed under the carpet, because he wasn’t on our side of Europe and it was to our advantage to ignore. Hypocritical but the truth.
LikeLike
Again Stalin could call himself a communist but did his actions make him one……no.
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Tim of Anston/ AKA “UKIP Rothervalley supporter” etc etc.
1. On Hitler v Stalin as merchants of death
” Stalin probably murdered 4 times as many people, ” – The current view is rather different: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/
2. On the UKIP leaflet
– It is simple not true that “We would save £55m a day by leaving the EU ” .
https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887
– Apart from that , the leaflet is largely just Labour-knocking copy, and until we see the UKIP 2015 Election Policy documents -due later this month I hear, I’ll suspend my belief in their credibility.
rr
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I won’t be voting for them , god help us all if that is the best we have got left!!
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You have the right to vote for whoever you want to and I will defend that right.
Analysing the current party leaders announcements and promises the next GE will be a contest between Dumb And Dumber.
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totally agree, having UKIP would be like blind leading the blind most of them have no political experience and have been dragged off the streets, one or two have said they did expect to win
What political experience does Mrs Vine have, never seen her doing in the community
LikeLike
Look closely at the current Labour muppets = there are a helluva lot of ’em who had no prior experience and often still don’t have any experience of ‘doing anything (positive) in the community’ as you imply or try and level against Cllr Maureen Vine.
Cllr Maureen Vine is very involved and in significant ways that will emerge in time……….I suggest people in glass houses restrict from throwing stones perhaps,
LikeLike
There may be a non-partisan, unifying Independent alternative: a middle way between Labour’s discredited philosophy that sweeps problems under the carpet and UKIP’s simplistic rhetoric that revels in blanket condemnation and easy answers. A forensic scalpel to do some surgery on the sick body-politic rather than a feather duster or a sledgehammer. It’s going to hurt because there are no easy answers…
LikeLike
Rev,
I support you in that.
Rotherham Labour is far too tainted to carry on in power, and from what I see Rotherham UKIP is far far too concerned in playing the Labour blame-game to provide any positive alternative.
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But labour and the police are to blame
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Thanks Regular!
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Cheers Reg R
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Rather ukip than the current bunch who have no integrity, honesty or honour
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I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would be saying this but I believe in being honest in politics so I am going to say it. Today at the Council meeting UKIP did a bloody good job at bringing the I knew nothing brigade out of their hidey holes. They asked very pointed questions and the resolution for a new council brought good results. One being councillor Burton from Anston stating that CSE was happening in other towns and cities and if what has happened in Rotherham helps them to deal with it then it will all have been worth it. She was a member of the Children and young peoples scrutiny panel and round about 2007 or 2008 was the vice chair. Her attitude is hey don’t worry victims it has all been worth being raped abused beaten up and all the horrific things that was done to you because other towns and cities can see what has been done so me turning a blind eye really doesn’t matter. This is the calibre of the Labour councillors in Rotherham, you had to be there to see it to believe it.
Dave Smith
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One that should seriously consider her position and conclude that resignation is the only honourable thing left for her to do.
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Burton was asked about her role in this scandal at an Anston Parish Council meeting a few months ago and asked if she was going to resign? The questioner was fearless Mr.Brian Lewis and as you might expect Burton ‘can see no reasons why she should resign’. Burton was ably assisted and supported by part time councillor Dalton and Interruptor-in-Chief St.John.
Unless councillors are voted out or faced with overwhelming evidence of their guilt in all of this then we are stuck with them until election time.
Honesty, Openess and Integrity.
Some of the Nolan Principles which are not evident at APC.
LikeLike
Dave
if that is true then that is sick and a disgrace bringing her position into further disrepute.
Amazed that the chair did not pull her up?
Ged
Labour….Not in our Name
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Dave, Did she really say “it was worth it” ?!!! Just when you think lessons may have been learned and humility and sense are going to kick in…
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Yes she did
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Re The UKIP leaflet’s claims. Here’s what they said earlier.
RE Majad Bshir’s (UKIP) employment policies – thankfully it was screen grabbed before he took it down.
http://carolinepage.blog.suffolk.libdems.org/2014/05/08/ukip-the-mystery-of-the-incredible-vanishing-policies/
RE Paul Nuttall’s (UKIP) attitude to the NHS: (Again screen grabbed before he took it down)
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/paul-nuttall-nhs-disappearing-comments.html
Re Mr Farage’s endorsement of charging to see GP’s
http://leftfootforward.org/2013/07/ukip-wants-to-charge-nhs-patients-to-skip-waiting-times/
SKT xxxx
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SKT, – good one.
one more for your collection:
“Labour fury over Ukip ‘racist’ tweet: Shadow business secretary accused of racism – based on words he never used”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746366/Labour-fury-Ukip-racist-tweet-Shadow-business-secretary-accused-racism-based-words-never-used.html
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716381/Pay-200-doctor-value-NHS-Labour-peer-Lord-Robert-Winston-claims-patients-charged-treatment-stop-taking-health-service-granted.html
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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/31/nhs-users-pay-membership-charge more screen shots
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Yaffr,
Why not read and link to his actual report:
http://www.reform.co.uk/content/32643/research/health/solving_the_nhs_care_and_cash_crisis
This is Robert Wilson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Warner,_Baron_Warner
see that :
“n March 2014, Warner wrote an article for the Guardian newspaper suggesting that NHS users should pay £10 a month and £20 for every night in hospital. [11] Labour swiftly rejected these ideas. Shadow Health Minister, Jamie Reed, commented: “This is not something Labour would ever consider. We believe in an NHS free at the point of use, and a Labour government will repeal David Cameron’s NHS changes that put private profit before patient care.” [12]”
see that :
Lord Warner is a director of Sage Advice Ltd, and an adviser to Xansa (a technology firm) and Byotrol (an antimicrobial company) – all of which sell or are hoping to sell services or products to the NHS, according to website Social Investigations. [13] He also took up a position with Apax Partners – one of the leading private equity investors in healthcare, according to the Alliance for Lobbying Transparency. [14]
Do you get the picture now?
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/15/nhs-privatisation-failing-patients-warnings labour started diverting funds from nhs
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Labour isn’t even mentioned in that Guardian article.
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The article states government policy in 2003 labour were in power then
Do you get the picture now?
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Thanks for that RR,
Although I did notice in the article Ms Collins doesn’t really apologize. She simply says ‘If he didn’t say these words’, when she fully knows he didn’t.
I sort of collect screen grabs (although my real hobby’s are football and music) they highlight so much some may not want us to know.
SKT xxxx
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SKT
Our Jane is a very generous soul!
She now has a tweet dated 4:52 am – 8 Sep 2014
Saying ” It would be nice if Sarah Champion would work as hard for the victims of Rotherham as she does for the Palestinians!” , with a link to:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2014-09-05a.206867.h&s=speaker%3A25168#g206867.q0
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Actually it was David Sprason who said “If he didn’t say these words” etc .
Mrs Collins said “‘When I realised this quote about Chuka Umunna was untrue, I immediately sent a tweet to apologise. It was a lapse of judgment on my part.”
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True, it wos David Spranson wot said it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/11/david-sprason-ukip_n_4765474.html
Ouch.
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Ms Collins is simply a rent a quote politician. (Too many of those about) I tend to view politicians from the stance of what they do or don’t do. A little enlightenment on her solutions on one or two issues would be welcome rather than soundbites. Personally, I haven’t forgot her previous intervention on here were she stated Private Eye was full anti UKIP propaganda and for the true facts we should read the UKIP website. Like as if. The party political websites and spouttings – of all parties – are not exactly impartial. Her statement probably says more about her state of indoctrination than I ever can. Message to Ms Collins – forget the tittle tattle and point scoring; do something positive.
As for REVS quote: “There may be a non-partisan, unifying Independent alternative: a middle way between Labour’s discredited philosophy that sweeps problems under the carpet and UKIP’s simplistic rhetoric that revels in blanket condemnation and easy answers. A forensic scalpel to do some surgery on the sick body-politic rather than a feather duster or a sledgehammer. It’s going to hurt because there are no easy answers…”
I agree 100% with Rev. Labour, UKIP and all have to look unto themselves. All the serving council members during the period do so too. (As do the officials at RMBC and more). Many will be faultless for sure – but all parties / independents (and departments and agencies) have someone who knew and did nothing. That will come out in time. Party politics in this issue are meaningless – it’s the truth that is paramount. So to all parties and independent involved I say – stop gesture politics – look at the issue not rhetoric – forget your own personal kudos / gain and search your own souls too – it’s the truth that matters – not how many votes you may or may not get in what is a Rotten Borough on so many levels.
As for those that dismiss Dr John Carlisle’s comments about the culture of statistics meaning more than the welfare of children; and the role that played in the CSE scandal. . Do so at your peril. This is also central to the issue; as are the contracts to provide services (and profit) that result from this warped and business outcome led process. The support network is fragmented – and when statistics become king as the mean to gain contacts that is all that matters.
In the outsourced Social and Community field competition (became) becomes all – the maintenance of contracts for the contractors – good news for the overseers – the only consideration. Performance is not (was not) governed by what you actually do or how you helped the most in need (That takes staff, time and is costly) – but how you hit the easy targets at the lowest cost. This issue was raised in Rotherham (and nationally) as far back as 1995. and so too were the warnings regarding how such a culture would lead to people needing help, including young people at risk, going ignored for profit or company / charity gain. Sadly these warnings were correct.
In short, for anyone who doesn’t know how the community /social support network operates nationally, (and locally) think of a ‘care based’ A4E, G4S, ATOS ad infinitum, include the statistical fiddles, add company contract protectionism and profit motive, promote the empire building, take away the inter agency communication and work ethic, stir in a large amount of staff bullying for those that warned would happen and you get the recipe for a large part of what occurred within the cover up. (By the way Joyce Thacker’s little crew were responsible for over seeing much of this – and Mr Kimber’s HR Department were responsible for ignoring it and paying lip service to complaints and joining in the bullying)
Ms Jay’s investigation didn’t really cover this; it should have. Dr Carlisle is right. You have to dig deep regarding this issue to get to the root of the problem with inter agency working. Otherwise it will simply carry on and many who colluded will sneak away unchallenged, carry on regardless and make a quick buck waiting for the next scandal to occur somewhere else.
Finally, concentrate on RMBC alone and you encourage further cover ups. The whole system needs a national inquiry. There are a lot of guilty men and women you will never have heard of who have no accountability to voters or the local councilors – simply shareholders. The system is even more rotten than the Borough itself.
SKT
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Thanks Sally – watch this space
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