Has multi-culturism failed us – new model required?

The thing about these reports (links below) is to read them for yourself, and make your own mind up. Don’t let others tell you about them, or pass their own views on without you reading them yourselves. As the author put it.

“Just read them yourselves and make your own mind up. Then ask why people tell you they are saying something different.”

There is a big, big issues involved in this affair. Bigger than what goes on the Rotherham, bigger than the detail you read in the papers, it is this.

There are two approaches to the integration of new ethnicities and peoples arriving in the UK.

1. * One is to allow the new communities to live in ghettos, remain culturally half in the UK and half in their land of origin. Protect them by accepting and tolerating both the good and bad practices they bring with them. Do not be concerned when they are the victims of criminality, when they are disadvantaged in terms of jobs. Give them educations and a house, but forget that for them a university only means three years delay before they end up being a taxi driver. Give them grants, demand nothing under the disguise of tolerance, while accepting massive social problems unless they encroach upon the white middle classes. This is PC tolerance, something that criminals have hidden behind.

2. *The other is to accept and welcome strangers, to show tolerance. To provide help, education and support. To focus on integration and the agreement among us all, through law, as to what is expected of all, regardless of creed, colour, ethnicity or sexuality. It is to allow individual freedoms, while at the same time showing no more toleration of illegality for the immigrant community as one would from the white community. This is not meaning adherence to some spurious and fascist concept of “British Values” meaning those of the empire. It is about creating a country where the only thing we have to agree is to we abide by the same law, or be punished equally regardless of ethnicity.

Not surprisingly I adhere to the latter of these approaches, people are welcome but they like us should abide by the law. If we all do then we should go about our way in peace, with freedom of religion, politics, equality of opportunity, access to education, housing and employment. If any of us break the law we should suffer the consequences, if we should see someone break the law it is our duty to inform the Police. Once punished they get a fresh start.

This may appear naïve, but every other way is madness and doomed to create civil disorder

UKIP offer no solutions. Their emphasis on immigration misses the issue. As a former empire and trading nation we were never going to be able to prevent immigration without measures and tactics that most would consider racist and violent. Never more so than now, with global changes to transport and technology, massive population shifts through water shortages, famine, political upheaval and war.

The issue in the UK is not immigration, it is the failure since World War 2 of UK “Integration” policy.

A policy wherein many have been willing to accept immigrants as cheap labour, while concurrently despising them and their families, wanting to discard them when when economies change and work dries up. When they are denied access to work and banking, impoverished and forced to live in ghettos .

If we look at what has happened in Rotherham it was not an issue of ethnicity, Islam or Kashmiri cultural attitudes. Misogyny and child sexual abuse is all too common from primarily men of all ethnicity, all religions and colours.

The issue in Rotherham & elsewhere is one of criminality, criminal gangs, corruption and the use of politics and positions of power to disguise their criminality. It is that these men hide behind political clout and protection, sometimes using the term racism to discredit those who try to expose them.

When the four men threatened and screamed abuse at that guy outside the Town Hall, when they called him racist, don’t ask is he a racist? That is what they want you to do, it was the purpose of the attack.

Question why in town and country where there are plenty of racist why did they pick on him, simply for trying to help people understand the Jay report?

The answer is simple. They were doing it to intimidate and stop him. Really,  they don’t want even their own community to read and understand the report…only their version is acceptable.

I know these types of thug, they are amongst the most misogynistic and racist in Rotherham. They hate young white girls, they hate those from their own community who disagree with them or are from a different caste. They use and abuse the Roma.

What they were doing was intimidating him to make him shut up. If that failed, it was to discredit him and his evidence. He had hit a raw nerve, he was threatening something they wanted or new.

People out there should simply read the stuff he wrote for themselves and make up their own minds.

Then ask the question, why did they want to shut him up ?”

Bye, bye everybody.

Wil

Reference material:

View Alexis Jay Report click here .pdf.

View Report to Boston Castle Ward .pdf.

37 thoughts on “Has multi-culturism failed us – new model required?

  1. Re: you say, “It is about creating a country where the only thing we have to agree is to we abide by the same law, or be punished equally regardless of ethnicity.”
    You speak a great deal of common sense but you miss – in that part of your comment which is reproduced here – the elements of class and status. So, I believe that you should have said:
    “It is about creating a country where the only thing we have to agree is to we abide by the same law, or be punished equally regardless of ethnicity, class or status.”
    This is not a criticism.. but an addition.

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  2. Wiil Ewart you say: “As a former empire and trading nation we were never going to be able to prevent immigration without measures and tactics that most would consider racist and violent.” How come that Japan which had an Empire and is certainly one of the major trading nations of the world has managed without having to have had mass immigration and multiculturalism is an unknown concept there! The indigenous Japanese are far from being a minority in Tokyo as we are in London and given the immigrants’ birthrate shortly to be in many other of our major cities!

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  3. ” If we look at what has happened in Rotherham it was not an issue of ethnicity, Islam or Kashmiri cultural attitudes. Misogyny and child sexual abuse is all too common from primarily men of all ethnicity, all religions and colours.”

    This is to sidestep the issue – the very reason why, if this reasoning is allowed to continue, we ( by which I mean the non-Pakistani cohorts) will continue to get problems.

    This is a very complicated issue, involving left-liberal idiots who replaced “integration” with “multiculturalism” when they saw that some communities ( mostly Asian) were not actually integrateable. They side-stepped the issue by inventing new phrases rather than tacking the actual problem. The inward-looking Asian communities were handed the Race Card and encouraged to propagate their alien attitudes and values within their own enclaves, protected by the the law itself, who left them alone in the interests of “community cohesion”, afraid of producing riots if they intervened. Those with power and influence in these Asian communities were given a free hand. This goes on today apace, and it why the problem will never be solved as long as we have “wet” politicians, corrupt police and councils. The demographics indicate that as the Pakistani community grows in Rotherham and elsewhere, it will become increasingly more difficult to dislodge the Biraderi influences, and the Third World corruption endemic in Pakistan (where bribery is an accepted way of life ) will become more entrenched in British cities.

    It is PRECISELY the toxic mix of Islamic-indoctrinated attitudes and the Kashmir/Punjab/Mirapur/Sylhet village mentality that underlies the problem. Culturally these are tribal people, whose affinities belong to their clans ( Biraderi) , and who use these networks to exert influence and usurp our democratic political system – not only in Rotherham, but in Bradford, Tower Hamlets, Sparkbrook and many other areas – we would call it a “block vote”. It is that system that has caused the local political ward problem in Rotherham. If the main local party was the raving Looney Party, then they would infiltrate that to gain power and influence – the fact that in Rotherham it is a Labour Party stronghold is simply of little consequence. I doubt whether Pakistani Labour Party councillors couild actually describe to you the origins of the Labour Party or its core values – their affiliation is to the mosque community and their guiding principles come from the contents of the Hadiths and Quran, and hardly from any system that they consider to be man-made. I wonder how many Sharia’h courts are operating in Rotherham ?

    Islam has largely influenced the village cultures of the districts from where these immigrants originated – the misogynistic, female-subserviant attitudes are embedded in Islam. Family honour killings and first-cousin marriages are more of a cultural than a religious issue based upon village communities and the need for an extended family for subsistence.
    In particular, non-muslims ( Kuffars) are given a lower social status in Islam – such beliefs permeate the Quran – and so the Pakistani sees the white girl with their “immodest dress” and “freedom” as inferior. As Jack Straw famously said ” easy meat” .

    I do not accept the statement in quotes from ‘Wil’ at the top of my post. for a single minute.
    Ethnicity, religion and culture ARE a cause for the grooming, associated with which has been corruption in the police and council agencies, and the ability of Pakistanis with criminal intent to carry on regardless by playing the Race Card and using political influence.

    We have a big problem because to eradicate this problem will take people of extreme fortitude and vision, willing to implement measures that will unpopular with the “non-integrateable” . We do not have such people – we have people like ‘Wil’ , who won’t face the truth.
    Fortunately, when the SHTF I will be dead, but our Grandchildren will have to fight the battle.

    As an aside, I had to laugh when Mohammed Shafiq and his little band of merry men staged a demo outside Rotherham Town Hall.
    Why weren’t they marching through the areas with Pakistani residents with banners saying ” shame on our community” ?
    Where were all the Rotherham “community leaders” and Imams out demanding justice for the white girls ? Nowhere to be seen – because when push comes to shove they won’t criticise “their own” , which is why they allowed it continue, as long as the abused girls were Kuffar and white.

    It IS about race, religion, criminality and culture.
    “None is so blind as they that will not see”.

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  4. In answer to your question, Wil; yes it has failed, and quite spectacularly.

    Every decent, inclusive country in the world should make reasonable allowances for those who migrate to their country. Our problem is that we’ve bent over backwards to accommodate people to an extent where we’ve attracted the wrong kind of people (extremists, scroungers etc). Our attitude to immigration has been similar to our attitude when somebody bumps into us in the street. “Oh sorry,” we say even when it’s not our fault.

    In terms of the Rotherham problem, you’re absolutely right. There are a huge number of bigoted, intolerant and malevolent individuals who have the ‘race card’ to use as their main weapon; actually it’s perhaps the only weapon in their arsenal. But this is also a problem nationwide. You only have to look down South to places like Tower Hamlets, Luton etc to see the repugnant PC brigade in full action. Those who have actually experienced racism will understand why it’s infuriating when people use the term frivolously.

    Multiculturalism has become a toxic phrase in Britain now because of how sordidly it has been used and abused. The simple fact of the matter is that we should only be practising British law in courts and if anyone seeks to threaten that approach, they ought to be dealt with using the full force of the law.

    I personally don’t think different cultures can coexist together peacefully/successfully because they’ll remain ignorant to one another. The host country’s laws and customs must be upheld without question. Allowing our laws to be manipulated or customised to suit any minority is an abomination. Having your own beliefs (religious etc) and practising them is fair enough, but expecting the whole of society to accommodate or embrace them is a step too far; no country with a shred of self-respect would accept such an attempted indoctrination.

    Many of the problems we see today across the country stem from this totalitarian state-enforced multiculturalism. That includes the growth of the fascist far right.
    Apologies for the rant! 🙂

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  5. Tomspink: Can’t fault a word of what you have said, particularly about us having a big problem because to eradicate this problem will take people of extreme fortitude and vision, willing to implement measures that will unpopular with the “non-integratable” . We do not have such people – we have people like ‘Wil’ , who won’t face the truth.
    Where ever such people are to be found I cannot see them being in the Labour party! Multiculturalism that celebrates diversity and argues against integration is essentially the official recognition of self-hatred! The ideological arrogance and delusion of the multi-cultis is that despite no society in history ever having produced a liberal, multi-ethnic democracy free of racial tension is that they will, because they are somehow uniquely tolerant and morally superior!

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  6. There are Youth groups run in Rotherham run by Shoukat Ali and his minions that are Asians only.
    There are meeting that Muslim Youth Groups that are primarily asian only.
    If this isn’t segregation then I don’t know what is. There is a lot on this forum by some about Multiculturalism, it’s not let’s have asian councillors so that were not perceived to be racist it’s about employing the right people with the right credentials and qualities to do the job.
    When these people don’t do the job then let them be accountable for it.
    These councillors and leaders are elected by the people of Rotherham when those people have lost all confidence then why do they cling into their post with dear life.
    A quote came to mind from Brave heart.
    “You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.”
    ~ William Wallace, Braveheart (1995).

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    • Ak news Mirpur, Mahroof Hussain news channel might offer job to Phil.
      The people to blame are:-
      Lord Nazir Ahmed
      Jahngir Akhtar
      Mahroof Hussain
      Shaukat Ali
      Parveen Qureshi
      These five are the ones who were aware what was going on and they lied to Police and Councillors that whole of the asian community is behind them.
      I believe these people fell for their lies and cover up and now they have realised that these five people have abused there trust.
      Non of the asian community is behind them these are 5 lone rangers.
      They have covered there tracks well with having Mubeen Hussain, Sajid Bostan, Tajamal Khan and Sagir Alam are ready to replace them incase labour gets rid of them they want to keep labour party in family.
      If anyone else tries to work within labour party these five people will make false allegation to make sure no one else from asian community can come forward.
      We all have to pick up the pieces because of these five people.

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    • Colin, you say what you think it doesn’t say, but most words in the dictionary don’t say it either , please tell us what it does say – criticism has to be objective or else it is valueless.

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      • @rr.
        I thought my comment in plain English and the meaning were perfectly clear.
        However I’ll explain; Pretending different races with different cultures were and are assimilated into British society and adopt ‘our way of life’ is a myth. Being blind to the cultures and practices of (for example) men of Pakistani heritage is not the same thing as proclaiming Britain is a multicultural society. Multiculturalism suggests separateness, we should have policies which promote ‘Britishness’. Equally because these cultures are different they are not equal and are apart from the mainstream. There is a difference between tolerance and multiculturalism.
        Equality means different things to different people. The Equalities Act was passed to make it possible for everyone to have the same chances to do what they can but how many young Asians,Poles and Afro-Caribbeans join the police service for example? Or strive to get into Higher Education? We provide these opportunities but there is a very low uptake from these communities therefore some of them will complain they are not treated as equals. Yes I’m aware a similar number of white British young people will say the same things but that reinforces my points; We cannot force anyone to do what we think is ‘right and prope’r but we do give them the chance to better themselves and become responsible members of our society.
        I really don’t want a discourse on this subject because it detracts from the OP but I hope I’ve explained my previous post.

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      • Colin, this thread is a bit quieter now, so I’ll begin to reply. And look, I spent much of my working like outside the UK – I finally left when Thatcher was about to bring in the Poll Tax, and never came back to work here until 2001. I’m really lucky that I could do that. … and whilst I’ve lived in Rotherham for 12 years now – I still spend a lot of my time in both wealthy Elmbridge , Surrey and the very different world of East London. OK?
        Much of what you wrote I can accept, but went you write “how many young Asians,Poles and Afro-Caribbeans join the police service for example? Or strive to get into Higher Education?” . Have you no idea why they may not wish to join the Police? – try googling “Carol Howard”; and I think you you’ll find that young people from the Asian community have a higher relative take up of University places than us White British”. That is just my observation, I’ll see if I can get some official figures from BIS or the SLA.
        rr

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  7. The rule of law should apply to all, on Labours watch this happened. If we cannot trust our elected officials, police etc to apply the law fairly who can we trust?

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  8. Is the muslim youth confined to kashmir or mirper?

    Was he elected as the leader or self appointed?

    Is it a genuine body?

    Is it part of a constutionally organised national network?

    Please tell us mubeen

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    • Comment removed by Rik.

      Please allow time for other opinions to be heard before putting your jackboot in!
      Beginning to seriously doubt your objectivity? Rik.

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    • Ben
      Muhbeen Hussain is nephew of Coucillor Mahroof Hussain.
      His uncle is the one who has set this up.
      They are getting funding from the government.
      This is self appointed family made organisation.
      They have no members, no constitution, just on piece of paper.
      They own majority of taxi basis, takeaway, local buissness.
      Sabirs fastfood is owned by Mubheen father Sabir Hussain. Now a days you cant find one wife and his got two wifes.
      80% of sponceres are related to Muhbeen Hussain.
      Where has that donations gone?
      Why did he invite muslim speakers from london and Rochdale?
      This organisation is far right and no different to EDL, BNP and NF.
      These people are good at dividing not uniting.

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  9. It is ok arguing about what should have been done and by whom… blah blah blah … but the jay report DID mention that gangs of men predominantly Pakistani muslims were the perpetrators of the crimes ….and if everyone can agree on that .. when are we going to see GANGS of men predominantly Pakistani muslims arrested for these crimes ? surly this has to be done if the so called people in charge of this town want people to have any sort of confidence in them… Or is that asking too much ?. As Aleksandr Orlov would say ….simples .

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  10. Multi-culturism is very simple, it’s a collection of different cultures and races living together and respecting each other. However the prevailing culture should be the british culture. One set of values for all of us.

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  11. I’ve never understood what the generic term ‘British Culture’ many use is? It’s such a vague phrase and is only pertinent to the user and often misused by many. It’s just a soundbite – a bit like the annoying phrase ‘Common Sense’ – it is means different things to different people and so very little in essence. By the way that’s not a dig at UKIP – just an example.

    As for one set of ‘British Cultural’ values for all – this needs to be more specific. If it means respect for all, equal rights, freedom of speech and opinion, each having the vote, the existence of democracy,(even that’s debatable), the rights of all to live in safety and peace without fear and intimidation and respect for the law that’s fine. But most individual values are personal and will vary from individual to individual – even in families and marriages. 64.1 million people – 64.1 million minds and opinions. and that’s just the start.

    Can you legislate for joint values? Not really – that would be a road that leads to totalitarianism – Big Brother knows all while he / she watches – and worst of the implementation of a Hitleresque society were difference, no matter how small, is seen as a crime. (And a few fights in taxi ques and pubs as well maybe) Can we encourage them – yes. But first we all have to determine what they holistically are then agree – if we ever can. It’s not so easy is it? But I suppose we can all try. Although it will be trying in so many ways.

    As for the main thread – I found Wil’s article got it right. And it opened up the debate well. But how do we open up further a debate. Well first we have to examine ourselves.

    Take me for instance. (Many will no doubts say- yes please do – farrrrrrrrrrrr awayyyyyyyyyy from here – I jest of course – hopefully) My particular cultural values are taken from my multitude of historical family, environmental and social influences. It is diverse in itself. Perhaps more so than most. It is a historical broad evolving family line mix of Jewish, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic and Atheist. It comes from a mix of ancestors, recent and not so recent, who came from Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Serbia, Romania, the USA and of course England. (With research I will probably find more) Within England I have roots that can be traced to Sheffield, Barnsley, London, Runcorn, Retford, Salford, Newcastle, Sunderland,York, Telford, Taunton, Plymouth, Dartford, Dover even Rotherham and more – so many more. Go back even further and I am most definitely not Anglo Saxon in origin. Indeed my timeline goes back to the Daneland. As does most with Yorkshire roots. A bit of Pict, a bit of Viking and a bit of Roman and more. Northumbrian yes – Mercian and Wessex ermmm not sure. Although you never know. Each has had its influence – left a little of their various and differing cultures within me. So what does that make me? A mongrel for sure. But in essence just me – an individual with individual thoughts and concepts of what I believe to be so called ‘British Culture’. Nothing more nothing less. Not easy is it?

    In addition take my birth county’s (and many more) patron Saint – Saint George – he wasn’t English – he came form Lydda, Roman Palestine and never set foot here. The patron Saint of my Caledonian roots (Andrew) was Galilean. Saint David was Welsh but Wales wasn’t British in its current concept at the time. As for Saint Patrick – there’s debate where he was born – Scotland maybe is the best guess – but no one really knows. British identity – it’s such a complex issue at times.

    In my opinion, before we talk of so called ‘British Culture’, we have to look within ourselves and establish who we are as individuals. We also have to clarify what context the debate is centred around what we mean. Soundbites – I hate them – they say so little

    So to sum up – and say what I should have in a much shorter fashion – ‘The term British Culture’ is a mongrel too. Let’s just try and see what people have to offer before we stereotype. We’re wasting an awful lot of talent and contribution if we don’t. Like the old Zummerzet saying says, ‘There’s good and bad in all – including apples – look for the good in the orchard and you will find life’s and its taste – is a little sweeter.”

    SKT xxxx

    PS: There was a rumour one of my Grannies courted a Frenchman before she got married to a Glaswegian. Maybe I have a little of Paris’ in me too. You never know. Oh la la.

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    • SKT, spot on.
      I spend my time shuttling between Rotherham, Elmbridge – the most wealthy part of the London commuter belt, and a district in Lewisham, inner SE London where house prices have risen astronomically since a fast regular London Transport network system arrived there – you now pay £400k for a one bedroom conversion flat in a Victorian House. I love all of them. But the values, street life and attitudes that are prevalent in each of them differ totally. England is a complex multifaceted place – but then almost countries are, and the ones that aren’t are places one would never want to go.

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  12. That’s because your have no faith in our way of life, there is always hope. Perhaps this sorry episode will make us realise what we have to lose if we listen to the PC crowd

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  13. Sally, That’s all very well but your family tree only can only be relied upon if your Dad is your Dad or your Granddad is your Granddad etc. Your account of your family may be of interest to some on this blog but is only very loosely connected to the discussion in hand.

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  14. Peter , respect your opinion, I always do, even when I disagree from time to time – I always do. But the issue of historical the differing family, environmental and societal influences it isn’t loosely connected. It’s central to understanding what makes us all what we are and then being able to move on fro their with a degree of common aims.

    If people look in to their family (and British History) they will find it has a multitude of roots and influences. The term British Culture is simply a soundbite. There is no such thing has one culture. Look at Northern Ireland for example – a place I know well. Even my part of Yorkshire is different to that of North Yorkshire. Vastly so. I lived there for a while at it was a different world in so many ways. More alien to me then when I lived in London.

    If people are going to talk about the British Culture they have to explain what they think it is. Not just use a throw away phrase. Otherwise the use of the term and the debate is meaningless. David Cameron’s so called British Culture is different to mine. His being of of money, empire, power, lineage to Kings and influence – mine being one of working class roots, industrial settings, struggle and being ignored. Somethings may actually connect me and Mr Cameron – I doubt it but it could be so – but to establish what it is that could bind us we would first have to discuss and debate. The same applies to everyone. You never know we may find we all have common threads and be able to take it from there.

    Neither I or you or anyone can say what British Culture is for certain. And we may all disagree on certain points.But to establish common themes re the discussion we need to examine what it means to self then all. Otherwise you end up with meaningless political slogans such as National Security, Common Sense, Common Interest and the nation’s history. Mere phrases that mean too many different things and therefore mean nothing.

    England and Britain is a mongrel nation – and that isn’t an insult it’s a compliment. Each part of the country has different views and histories – and long be it so – but somehow we manage to get mostly get along. And that’s what we should centre on – what is about us that enables us to do so? What is it that we can agree on to ensure we carry on doing so? Debates need detail and passion if they are to be real debates. We could learn a lot (good and bad) from the way the people of Scotland have conducted their debate recently.

    As for my Dad being my Dad I know what you mean in essence – but I had 2 – they both died – one a long time before the other. I 6 Granddads too. They all had differing influences. And that’s why we have to look in detail at what makes us what we are. What are our influences? What are our histories? What are our perspectives? What are our dreams? What are our opinions? Then then take it from there.

    Simple really.

    SKT xxxx

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    • … and if you move from London north of the Thames across the river to the South or from West to East London , We are a country of many cultures.

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  15. Pingback: Boston Castle Ward Labour Party – Chair Resigns! | Rotherham Politics

  16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/exposed-devious-brit-pervs-who-2317735
    I could use many more links, but the culprits above are not likely to have been influence by Kashmiri village culture. In the first case, the home having links with the most enthuisastically union jack waving Orange order, with former Tory PM and prominant royal (close friend of Saville) were implied.
    The second case Norman Tebbit admitted that the Thatcher cabinet turned a blind eye, to Peter Morrison etc being involved in abuse.
    The third case is mainly, White middle class British men abusing Asian children, actually also in such as Thailand etc as well. Can the people in those countries cite White British Chistian cultural reasons for this abuse.

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