APC – Can they be serious?

Another good one from the folks from Anston:

APC. Watch Labour Morons in Action.

Last Monday 4th March Anston Parish Council met to discuss the Charity and Finance agendas. The videos of these meetings are below and it must be said that after viewing them it is easy to understand why APC is Not Fit For Purpose. For example; the Charity meeting agenda Item 16- ‘ To consider location of proposed skatepark and approve the use of Charity land for this purpose’. More on this later.

Videos 1 & 2 cover the Charity meeting and once again Independent councillors have to point out several inconsistencies and omissions on the agenda including debtors, charges and building insurance costs. As expected the Labour councillor’s and sham Independent Brindley remained silent simply because they do not understand how to read a budget sheet and have no qualms about spending our money without any discussions or debate. Read on and view the videos, click link below.

https://anstonparishcouncilwatch.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/apc-watch-labour-morons-in-action/

31 thoughts on “APC – Can they be serious?

  1. The independent councillors should be congratulated on their efforts to hold this lot to account . I don’t live in Anston this is a personal opinion

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  2. What a farce and I mean this from both sides of the table.

    I’ve attended APC meetings quite a lot over the years (I was on other business for this one so couldn’t attend) but the behaviour of both sides is not exactly good for democracy.

    Some councillors (well to be frank Labour councillors) play the political game in terms of voting i.e. it doesn’t matter if its good for the parish, we’ll vote against it because its not a Labour idea and because its come from an Independent. As with the borough council, the Labour party members at APC vote with the party and not for the people or their conscience.

    Councillor Thornton does an excellent job at holding the council to account but maybe his points are lost in the subsequent arguments that invariably turn into personal attacks on both sides. Having said that, its very much like one man against six so I’m not surprised he never gives up!!!

    Some members of the public are rude, disruptive and have no consideration for what councillors are saying or that other members of the public are trying to listen. Yes, they should hold councillors to account through proper protocols but the shouting, baying, sneering and unpleasantness every time a Labour councillor speaks is totally unnecessary. As St John calls it rattle!

    If the rowdy members of the audience just learned to shut up from time to time it would give the Labour councillors a chance to dig themselves into a hole and look silly (which they often do when allowed to speak). Just shouting them down every time they speak gives them an excuse to close the meeting. Don’t they see what’s happening?

    If I were on APC, I would vote for Thornton as Chair! He seems to understand more about procedures and protocols than anyone else on the council and I don’t doubt for a minute he would control meetings in a far better way.

    The B.

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  3. When all those uncollected monies were brought to light didn’t Michael Gazur,The Clerk say “We will have to get some systems in place” The Clerk, Michael Gazur had been in post for 14 years.These now in place systems include 20 years for one debtor to pay back. Iain St.John appears to congratulate the Clerk saying “Better systems are in place”….!!!

    Proposed Skate Park – “I don’t want to stop this happening” says Iain St,John. He is the person, who, when this was first proposed said “It is NOT going to happen”

    Iain St.John accuses Cllr Thornton of being aggressive. Well one only has to watch the video to see who is aggressive and as for attempting to accuse the public of bullying, Iain St. John would do well to recall his obnoxious and bullying verbal attack on an elderly parishioner of Anston.

    Iain St John uses the word GOB twice in the meeting – And this type of behaviour is what we have had to put up with at Anston for years.

    Iain St.John’s behaviour is unacceptable. The Labour Party should be looking into this dinosaur,

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  4. The low turn out of Anston Parish Labour Councillors is shocking.. Robin Stonebridge has not been for 14 months but they still keep his seat warm. The lack of commitment from the majority of Labour Councillors is disgraceful.
    The Chairman is hopeless and is continually having to be assisted by The Clerk – this is not the clerks role,
    Whenever there is a sticky point to answer, Iain St.John says let’s have progress or move it on, trying to get out of the situation.
    Proper Protocols? The Labour Councillors know they are Teflon coated – Their behaviour has been reported to Jacqueline Collins, Monitoring Officer many times – What did she do – nothing
    Shouting, baying and sneering and unpleasantness every time a Labour councillor speaks is certainly not correct. When the public are constantly insulted by the lies they have to listen to their reactions are responses to the sheer audacity of what the Labour councillors are saying. Labour councillors do not care what they look like if they did they would not make the remarks they do

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  5. Many thanks for posting this Rik.
    One slight error on my part; I wrote Monday 4th March when of course it should read Wednesday 4th March (I have corrected this on APCW)

    @Badger;
    You are quite correct in your analysis of the political games played by the discredited Labour party councillors (which are an affront to democracy) and the efforts of Anston Independent councillors who are trying to ensure nothing is hidden from the public.
    “they should hold councillors to account through proper protocols……” Unfortunately the ‘proper protocols’ no longer include Jacqui Collins nor her department. She has demonstrated time after time she will not take any actions against Labour councillors, no doubt she is trying to preserve her generous pay off and pension rights-which we help to pay for.
    One of the biggest problems Anston residents face is that Labour councillors have made themselves so untrustworthy it should not be any surprise that tensions and emotions run high whenever one of them starts to speak. We’ve had falsehoods, obfuscation and verbal abuse from Labour councillors for many years. Since the publication of the Jay report we’ve also had refusals by Labour councillors to discuss who knew what and when and why they did nothing at all to bring the subject of CSE into the public domain.
    I emailed Jacqui Collins last year to tell her Anston PC was out of control and the parish is virtually ungovernable. Her answer? “RMBC cannot take actions against a parish council”
    It is not only Anston that is ruled by morons.

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      • @rr
        All councillors have to comply with a Code of Conduct for members. Each local authority may decide define their own Code of Conduct, but all Codes must have due regard to the following principles:
        Selflessness
        Integrity
        Objectivity
        Accountability
        Openness
        Honesty
        Leadership.
        APC members have adopted RMBC’s Code of Conduct .Under Sections 28(6) and (7) of the Localism Act 2011, the Council must have in place “arrangements” under which allegations that a Member or co-opted Member of the Council of a Parish or Town Council in the area has failed to comply with the Code of Conduct can be investigated and decisions made on such allegations.
        Ms.Collins is correct when she says ‘RMBC cannot take actions against a parish council’ however she can and should investigate complaints against individual councillors. She has refused to investigate complaints about Dalton’s gangs and grooming business and her conflict of interests, she has failed to investigate separate complaints against Labour councillors yet pursues complaints against an Independent councillor. Collins also ignores complaints about procedural impropriety at APC meetings using the same daft excuse.
        I am not going to give my time researching and citing case law that shows Collins-a highly paid public servant-is a failure who prefers to opt for a quick political fix to save her neck..

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      • Now that Ms Collins has new ‘masters’ she has to answer too (the same masters who have been given the power to sack her and to appoint her replacement), would it be worth making the same complaints again but via this time via the Commissioners?

        I can see the matter of a Labour councillor’s lack of attendance being brushed under the carpet when Ms Collins worked on behalf of the Labour party dictatorship, but now maybe Ms Collins might have to take the complaint more seriously.

        The same applies to Dalton’s Gangs and Grooming business, Dalton’s protectors aren’t in a position to cover for her while they don’t have executive power.

        After all, Collins must be aware that she is under constant scrutiny.

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  6. I’m inclined to agree with most of what you say Valerie but I have to strongly disagree with your comment “Shouting, baying and sneering and unpleasantness every time a Labour councillor speaks is certainly not correct”.

    I know you are one of the people who shout and sneer (I’ve been sat at the side of you when you’ve done it). Anyone listening to the videos can make up their own mind. The same treatment is not handed out to the Independent councillors when they speak and that is clear from the videos.

    Now I’m not saying you are not justified in being annoyed and upset at the way APC operates because I feel you are justified and you along with others have campaigned to show the Labour councillors for what they are. But, the shouting and baying is not good for democracy, it puts other members of the public off being there and just adds to the farce.

    Like I said, if people just let the Labour councillors speak, they are very good at digging a hole for themselves and embarrassing themselves. While they are constantly being shouted down, the attention is diverted away from them and onto the people doing the shouting thereby giving them a chance not to answer the question.

    The B.

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  7. i always look forward to your posts badger as they contain some impartiality, however speaking as one of the so called bayers and sneerers at apc meetings I guess you must be a relative new comer to the scrum. All your suggestions as to how us bayers and sneerers should conduct ourselves have sadly been tried and failed dismally over a long period of years and the result of Labour cllrs bully tactics and bleats of “we have been elected so leave us to do the job” is the undemocratic behaviour you witness at apc meetings. I would like to meet you badger and wish you would not hide yourself away, if you are too shy to introduce yourself to us friendly lot perhaps you could consider another clue in addition to the reference of sitting next to val to fuel the speculation. Meanwile I will continue with my feeble efforts to bring justice and truth to apc meetings despite your comments and will continue to welcome your input.

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  8. Christine, here’s your clue, I have spoken to you at APC! I even stood up at one meeting and said how disappointed I was with the conduct of both members of the public and councillors and that it was putting off people who wanted to hear what was going on. I am no newcomer to the scrum of such meetings but have tended to be quiet in the past and I do try to see both sides of the argument.

    I have been at APC meetings when members of the public have walked out in disgust at the behaviour of both sides. As much as the ‘ganging up’ mentality of the Labour members is evident, the disruption caused by a few people is also evident. It does you no good as in my opinion, it weakens your position and gives the councillors you attack the moral high ground.

    Please let me give you an example. It was an APC meeting in December (I think) where members of the public directed some very good questions to borough councillors about their involvement in the CSE scandal. Burton started to answer but was shouted down and just sat quite has she faced a barrage of insults and every time she time she tried to answer, she was shouted down. The meeting spiralled out of control and was closed.

    The result was that members of the public sat near me were angry that they didn’t get the chance to hear what Burton had to say for herself and left being annoyed not at Burton but at those that who wouldn’t let her answer. In effect, Burton was let off the hook and the ‘shouters’ looked bad.

    At the meeting in February, Burton was asked questions about when she was going to resign but this time she was allowed to answer as the shouting from the public wasn’t as great. Being allowed to answer and refusing to resign meant she dug herself into a hole, contradicted herself, made herself look silly and even tried to defend Dalton’s indefensible position.

    When given a proper chance to answer the questions, she just made herself look silly and that’s the point I am making. In short, in terms of showing the Labour councillors for what they are, the February meeting was far more effective than the December meeting.

    I wouldn’t say your attempts are feeble, they have helped to bring members of APC to account and have highlighted many of the things that have gone wrong. It just now it seems to be getting out of control that’s all. We only have to wait until May!

    The B.

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  9. @The Badger
    “would it be worth making the same complaints again but via this time via the Commissioners?”

    This is in progress.

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  10. Hi Badger, I thank you for the comments you made about myself (your my best, best friend now) but feel I have to have some input. Its pointed out that its only the Labour Cllrs who are shouted down, this is probably true. But it has to be asked why its only them and not the Independents. The answer is quite clear, the Independents do not make derogatory comments at members of the public. Some Labour cllrs, and you know who, think its acceptable to make sly comments at the public, then make some unfounded claim that they are being bullied. Over the years Labour Cllrs have “slagged off” the public with impunity, and despite repeated complaints to the monitoring officer, nothing has been done. The public only react when taunted, and when they do react, the only thing that happens is that the Labour Cllrs sink even lower in their comments. Everyone who attends on a regular basis ( and most of the public attend more regular than Labour Cllrs) knows what the problem is, and the sooner he goes the better. Their was a meeting recently when only Independents attended, this was probably the most pleasant and constructive meeting in the last four years and devoid of all Political ping pong.
    Speaks volumes,

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  11. Thanks ST,

    To anyone who goes to the meetings at APC its fairly obvious why the public don’t have a go at the Independents (well the REAL Independents that is and not the pretend ones) and the answer is simple. They represent the view of people in Anston and are willing to stand up to the Labour councillors.

    I know that the Labour councillors have a go at members of the public and show a great deal of disrespect which is course out of order. The point I make is that when the public argue back with lots of shouting from several people all at once, they lose the moral high ground and the issues they raise (which are more often than not very valid) are lost in the shouting and tit for tat.

    The end result looks like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

    Maybe its now time for a change in dealing with raising issues especially now that meetings are videoed. I’m sure if some people just kept quiet, the Labour councillors will keep digging that hole for themselves. The Labour members play to the cameras, why shouldn’t the public!

    As for the meeting where only Independents attended, maybe that’s the way forward eh? Lets see what the May elections bring.

    The B.

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  12. Badger: It was myself who was pressing Jo Burton for an answer in respect of her knowledge of Child Sexual Exploitation at the meeting you allude to. Jo Burton was Senior Advisor to the discredited Shaun Wright. When asked about her action in respect of addressing these heinous crimes she has just sat there smirking and grinning. Again, on this occasion JO BURTON WAS NOT ATTEMPTING TO GIVE ME AN ANSWER – she just sat there stone faced.

    Yes sometimes the meetings are closed prematurely – The reason is obvious, it is to get the person being questioned off the hook. Yes some were upset they didn’t get the chance to ask their question. Indeed one man came up to me and said so, he wanted to ask about litter. Well if litter is more important than addressing the torture of children then SHAME SHAME SHAME.

    If you do succeed in being elected to APC then I suggest you acquaint yourself with the gross historical abuse the public has had to suffer and did so in silence but no more, the matter of Child Sexual Exploitation and the abuse of position by certain Borough Councillors is worthy of standing up for. .

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    • Yes, I know it was you Hilary who pinned Burton down and to start with, it worked very well (didn’t she even try to repeat her greatest faux pas of ‘if it means that other councils learn from our mistakes it was worth it’)? The problem for me is that by the constant shouting, she was let off the hook as the meeting had to be closed and she didn’t have to answer. But that’s just my opinion, if you don’t want her to answer and let the chair have an excuse to close meetings, just keep shouting.

      I can assure you that the Labour councillors are using your ‘aggressive behaviour’ (NOT my words, but the words of one of the people you are holding to account) as a justification for their own actions. I know you won’t like it but I just don’t think you can see that though.

      And yes, CSE is important as is bringing the perpetrators and those who covered up for them to justice but your comment “if litter is more important than addressing the torture of children then SHAME SHAME SHAME” is bang out of order. (by the way I wasn’t the man who asked you about litter).

      If that person had a concern about litter, he had every right to express it. Or do you think that the only agenda item that should be discussed is CSE? if that’s the case don’t you think by you setting the agenda and criticising others for wanting to speak about other issues that are important to them is denying THEM of the freedom to speak? Isn’t that exactly what the Labour councillors are doing?

      You seem to forget that there are others present who also want to have their say on other matters. Its not that they don’t care about CSE, its just that there is still other business to deal with as well or would you prefer the business of the parish council to grind to a halt? If that’s your intention, please tell us.

      At every meeting as you well know, there is one Independent councillor in particular (ST) who raises issues that embarrass the Labour councillors but he doesn’t concentrate on the same subject, he manages to make them squirm through a variety of subjects in which they have performed badly. To me, that is a good way of putting them in the spotlight and giving them a run for their money. In short, there are other ways of doing the same job.

      I am aware of the historical situation at APC, much more than you think or know. The difference is I don’t have to stand up and shout all the time, there are other ways to have an influence that can make a difference. You may be surprised at the ways I could make a difference.

      As for being elected to APC, it does make me think if comments from you like “SHAME SHAME SHAME”, or from Christine ‘I withdraw the welcome” are anything to go by, its not really worth anyone making the effort is it?

      When I first posted on here I was asked by (I think Christine) why I wouldn’t give my real name. I replied that its because I didn’t want to be berated or chastised for having views that might be different to those who were anti APC. Seems I was justified I think.

      It seems to me that someone with no party connections who may be willing to give up their time and experience to help put APC back on its feet and make a worthwhile contribution to the parish is being put off because I don’t agree with everything you say or the way you do things.

      Is that what you do to everyone who you don’t agree with? If you do that with every potential candidate who wants to weaken the Labour stronghold, you may just find that the only names on the voting slip are Labour members.

      The B.

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  13. dear badger, i originally said your posts are welcome but after the latest regurgitation of advice i withdraw the welcome. Your perception of proceedings at apc meetings could be construed as a touch naive to long standing attendees. Direct your comments to apcllrs preferably from a standing position instead of leaving it to the shouters and screamers. Badger here is your clue, stand up more than once, you never know we might just notice you

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  14. To Badger

    Burton let off the hook – Had you attended subsequent meetings you would have your answer.

    She did NOT repeat her Faux pas – she sat stone faced – as pointed out previously

    The Chair – Should control the meeting and ensure councillors give answers

    Justification for their own actions – There is NO justification for the Labour Cllrs actions

    Bang our of order! – As is that remark. I do know who the person in question was, thank you although you seem eager to clear yourself of any “blame”

    CSE was NOT an agenda item – It was brought up in public question time. You make a basic error of understanding –
    Child Sexual Exploitation – This subject, the greatest scandal of our time, is denied and attempted to be debarred for discussion at APC.

    Freedom to speak – Yes and Labour councillors are denying this by closing the meetings prematurely to protect their colleagues.

    My intention – Has, Is and will be to elicit answers – Your further comments in this paragraph highlight your lack of historical fact – they demean you.

    Embarrasses the Labour Councillors – You delude yourself – The Labour Councillors are in no way embarrassed, if they could be so embarrassed they would not have acted in the way they have

    It has been pointed out – You rarely attend and have stood up once!

    Re comments from Christine and myself – It appears you have capitulated before the first hurdle – Not what is needed

    You do not want to be berated or chastised – Appears you would not be able to accept criticism if elected – More of the same really.

    Your final 2 paragraphs are just ill informed rant designed to attack to strengthen your position – They do not.

    I understand RMBC are looking to close APC as not fit for purpose Maybe they have an inkling that like will follow like!

    Your oft repeated mantra is worthy of no further comment

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  15. “Your oft repeated mantra is worthy of no further comment”

    Yep, just what I suspected, anyone who doesn’t agree with you is not worthy of having an opinion.

    Your approach seems to be if I am slagging off Labour councillors, I am worthy. If I question what YOU say, I’m not worthy. What is apparent is that anyone who does not agree with your view is dismissed and is treated like garbage and that extends to me now because I have the temerity to question what you say. Do you agree or disagree?

    I don’t mind having disagreements or differences of opinion with people (that’s life) but just because I don’t attend every meeting doesn’t give you a right to dismiss me or an opinion I have of APC. As well as you dismissing how often I attend (above), I have heard you say to other members of the public who have tried to speak at meetings ‘What do you know, you never come to meetings’.

    So what? They pay their taxes, they vote, they have a right of say and the right to come to as many or as few meetings as they like. Do you agree or disagree? Yes or No?

    Between labour councillors arguing against lost causes and the shouting, its no wonder people don’t want to attend meetings or speak up. As much as the Labour clones are responsible for damaging APC, you are responsible for making meetings unpleasant by the way you act, but you won’t accept that. Now where have I heard that before?

    All I’m asking is that you give other people a chance but as you don’t seem to be prepared to do that (or give me a chance), its a waste of time trying to get elected as I believe that even when the Labour failures have gone, I see nothing that makes me think that meetings will be any better.

    There is more than one way to skin a cat and whilst some people like ST successfully challenge APC within meetings and Colin Tawn does an excellent job informing people with the Anston parish council watch blog, I have my way of doing things. Just because it doesn’t involve standing up at meetings shouting doesn’t mean I’m not prepared to work towards change and for the betterment of Anston.

    I would much rather speak to you face to face than on this forum (and not at a parish council meeting) but as you seem to have dismissed me, is there any point?
    The B.

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  16. Badger: I have read your comments – When you have never met a person nor been in their company how can you sit in judgement. Your comments are derogatory, you ask questions and then proceed to answer them with your own opinions. Regarding other people speaking the majority of the meetings are attended by the same members of the public. If it wasn’t for these members of the public attending, Anston would be in a worse state than it is now. We the regulars speak up for democracy.

    As a retired union rep assertiveness was factored into my training and this has come in very useful when dealing with being shouted down by some Labour Parish Councillors.

    If you are elected to APC are you going to sit at the table with a bag over your head to remain anonymous in order that you are not berated nor chastised???

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  17. “When you have never met a person nor been in their company how can you sit in judgement”.

    Well other people seem to be judging me without knowing who I am! Is there one rule for you and your friends and another for me?

    My comments are based on my observations of what I see at these meetings. If people reading this want to make their own judgements, there’s plenty of links on here to some good videos they can watch of the meetings.

    Yes, the meetings are attended by the same people because as I keep saying, people are put off and leave or don’t come back! Are you really happy with that?

    And there’s a lot of assumptions that I’m going to stand for election, how have you/Hilary come to that conclusion?

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  18. This “Spat” between Members of the Public and Badger worries me. Having read all the comments I actually believe both parties are on the same side. Maybe its time to put differences aside and work to rid the Parish Council of the Labour Party problem

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  19. I believe you are quite right Anonymous. I think the difference of opinion is how business is conducted from the public side of the table and not the subject matter i.e. the Labour party problem and what has happened in Anston.

    In life, people have differing opinions and its one of those things we have to live with. Some people love hot weather some don’t. Some people feel the way forward is to shout, other feels there are other ways forwards. We agree, we disagree, we get on with life, we move on.

    I don’t mind disagreeing with people and I don’t mind when people disagree with me, but I do have difficulty when people don’t seem to want to move on and insist on living in the past (and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way).

    The B.

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