Sell-Off – The End Of The NHS?

We all need it at some time in our lives.

Is it slowly being taken away from us?

Doctors, GPs, Healthcare workers and Professionals say YES IT IS and break down the hows and whys.
All major political parties are blamed and none have clean hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ultKvnw2h3Q&feature=youtu.be

Something to remember when the fake debates begin in the lead up to the election and the pretend left and right parties claim to be the saviours.

rothperson

44 thoughts on “Sell-Off – The End Of The NHS?

  1. Well done for doing your bit in raising public awareness. One of the main reasons that I have taken on fighing elections as a member of NHAPARTY is exactly this. This has been a 20 year plan managed by Letwin and Redwood and pushed through by Tories, Labour and now Condems. We are fighting a rearguard action but as Bevin said there will be an NHS if there is somebody there to fight for it.
    To this end I am now standing in Clegg’s constituency …Sheffield Hallam. I know a lot of the people in this film personally …most of them can treble their salaries by going private but believe in the NHS, as I do, not just as a deliverer of health care but something that mirrored our values, ethos and morals as a society. We are now in the process of selling it off…and aspiring to copy the WORST and most EXPENSIVE healthcare system in the world.
    All I can say is watch this video and weep but then talk to your MP and say you want the Health and Social care Act repealed and you want UK to have NO part in TTIP. NHS exemption is not good enough.

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    • Hi Naveen ,
      But I think it was Bevan (Aneurin) who said:
      ‘The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it’
      not Bevin (Ernest). 🙂
      … and whilst I agree with much of what you’ve written, are you really suggesting that the US has both the most expensive and worst healthcare system in the world? The most expensive certainly , but the worst ?

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      • Quite correct RR meant AB ( not to be confused with Andy Burnham …lol!) and should have said the comparison was based on the Commonwealth Fund survey of 11 developed nations.

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      • Hi, Naveen
        I tried, but couldn’t get to grips with that Commonwealth Fund Survey of only 11 Western nations – an odd number in every sense. (Why Netherlands but not Belgium was my first question). I’ll just stick with the OECD figures. (which is after all the source of much of the data in the CF Survey.

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    • “NHS exemption is not good enough”, I could not agree more. I would not trust the EU commission as far as I could throw them. If the NHS became a stumbling block in TTIP negotiations then the exemption would go-after all they are never going to have to answer to the British electorate.

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      • Our govt does NOT want NHs exempted. Lord Howe et al have said so. And anyway according to the rules competition law trumps everything! Regardless whether it is good or bad four health and other public services. The thing is that they would not allow it to be reversed by a future govt. Either. Hard fought for rights over centuries, democracy and justice is being given away. The scale of these injustices seems only to be matched by our apathy…sorry I am angry!

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      • Rob,
        Please stop your wholesale EU Commission diatribe for just once; many EU countries, led by Germany are fighting aspects of the original TTIP proposals. Read what’s happening then respond – don’t just rant.

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        • Well Germany have put a hold on CETA which may be the saviour as far NHS and TTIP is concerned. I fear though this will only just delay matters. However we can but hope as our leaders ( from all parties) are not doing anything.

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      • Judah – Naveen?
        What has Lord Howe (https://www.gov.uk/government/people/lord-howe) got to do with anything ?
        “according to the rules competition law trumps everything! ” what rules ?
        Never get angry .get organised.
        ________
        TTIP is being used by the UKIPers among us to castigate the European Commission – because they want to leave the EU. But after leaving the EU and having to find trading partners for ourselves do you think we would be in a stronger negotiating position with the US on trade agreements than we are now as part of the world’s largest trading community?
        I am not in favour of TTIP – and not just because of the effect on the NHS.
        …and over the years I have had many problems when dealing with the Commission in person and on the phone – sometimes I just despaired of them – but in all honesty I’ve always despaired more of how UK’s Civil Service has failed to learn how engage with and influence them.
        ________________
        As but one example: Whilst civil servants in all other major EU countries that I’m aware of can be seconded to work for the Commission for a period, UK civil servants must resign from the Civil Service before taking up any Commission appointment. (…. but they can be seconded to work in the New Zealand.civil service.). . So we have lots of civil servants who have personal contacts in the New Zealand administration but few who know anyone they can phone inside the Commission.
        [End rant].

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  2. It is staggering to see what a bad deal the USA gets for it’s healthcare. It is the most costly at a whopping 17% of GDP(the OECD average is 9.3%) and yet has a life expectancy of 78.7 that is only 26th out of the 36 OECD nations. A study by Bloomberg in 2013 rated it 46th out of 48 of the countries studied based on efficiency. The US model is not the one to follow or have forced on us via TTIP.

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    • Rob, that’s is not going to happen – do you think that any other EU country wants to revert to a retrograde US model? There are many EU countries that have very effective and efficient health care systems.

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      • RR, a diatribe is a lengthy and abusive verbal attack, if you consider the above as such then you are indeed a sensitive soul. I was merely pointing out that the EU commission is undemocratic and does not have to work in the UK’s interest(on this or anything else).
        Why are we in a stronger negotiating position with the USA as part of the EU?;
        i) We haven’t got a trade deal with the US( after years of talks) yet countries like Morocco have had one for years.
        ii) We are one 27th of an EU Commissioner at these talks, that’s an influence of 3.6%. Surely we would be in a better position representing ourselves? For example Iceland has a trade deal with China, something the EU has been unable to achieve.
        Finally, the EU is increasingly outdated, globalisation is fast making it irrelevant, do Europhiles not realise this?

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      • Rob,
        Rob, what I wrote was over the top. Regretted.
        Rob, what I wrote above was over the top. Regretted.
        ____________
        My thoughts on your response.

        The Iceland deal.
        After the complete collapse of its economy in the banking crisis, and it’s ongoing squabbles over repayments with UK and Netherlands, Iceland needs investment from anywhere, and China is happy to provide it – as it is doing in Ethiopia and other countries in Africa. Iceland already exports its fish (it’s major export) to the rest of Europe but China is happy to take some of the rest as part of the trade deal. China gains a foothold in Europe / Iceland gets investment that it desperately needs. I’m not sure they are equal partners in this. But Iceland is a lovely country – with lovely people, I hope it works out well.
        (A contact has just returned from Ethiopia where among other things she was looking at the overall impact China’s investment was having on that country. As soon we get a chance to discuss it, we will*. )
        _____________
        Morocco /US
        http://www.ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/morocco-fta
        “The United States and Morocco signed an FTA on June 15, 2004. The Agreement entered into force on January 1, 2006. The United States-Morocco FTA is a comprehensive agreement that supports the significant economic and political reforms that are underway in Morocco and provides for improved commercial opportunities for U.S. exports to Morocco by reducing and eliminating trade barriers.”
        (Well yes, Morocco is the regime it was under Hassan II, but we are no nearer resolution of the illegal occupation of the Western Sahara, and this takes pressure off Morocco in regard to that. )
        “Since the entry into force of the FTA, the U.S. goods trade surplus with Morocco has risen to $1.8 billion in 2011, up from $79 million in 2005 (the year prior to entry into force). U.S. goods exports in 2011 were $2.8 billion, up 45 percent from the previous year. Corresponding U.S. imports from Morocco were $996 million, up 45 percent. Morocco is now the 55th largest export market for U.S. goods.”
        “The FTA Subcommittees on Agricultural Trade and Sanitary and Phytosanitary Matters also met in September 2012 and discussed Morocco’s implementation of the tariff-rate quotas established under the FTA to afford U.S. wheat producers preferential access to the Moroccan market. The United States continues to have serious concerns about Morocco’s administration of these tariff-rate quotas.” .
        Net result: US farmers get another market.
        ___________
        * My own attitudes on this area were largely formed when working in Ethiopia in the 1980s, when, out of necessity, Ethiopia had to turn to the USSR for investment and assistance – in exchange for their coffee harvests. Russia drove a very hard bargain on that desperately poor country.
        _____________________
        I am what you call a “Europhile” I guess, but then I grew up in the 1940s – and so I have always seen the EU as a way of trying to ensure that we don’t experience the war-torn years in Europe again, and sure, more than most I have enjoyed being able to work in Europe without any problems, as have others in my family; plus – my son studied in Germany under Erasmus and my eldest granddaughter will most likely to go a Dutch University – far lower fees than here. So for me globalisation is not making the EU irrelevant.
        So why do I think we are better off negotiating trade deals as members of the EU than outside the EU? Size of the relative economies with the countries on the other side of the table..
        Outside the EU we will be in a weaker negotiating position – we will be needing partners, inside the EU the US are wanting to become our partners.

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    • Rotherham Politics has to enforce part of our conditions concerning registration of those who comment on this blog. Put simply, this is how to both register and preserve the confidentiality you may require.

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    • The Pro Camp:
      The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is the name of a trade agreement that is being negotiated between the European Union and the United States. The negotiations aim at removing trade barriers (tariffs, unnecessary regulations, restrictions on investment etc.) in a wide range of economic sectors so as to make it easier to buy and sell goods and services between the EU and the US. The EU and US also want to make it easier for their companies to invest in each other’s economy.
      http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/questions-and-answers/

      The Anti Camp:
      TTIP would have enormous effects on our democracy, the rule of law, consumer and environmental protection, and even on the provision of public services, such as our health service, education, and culture. TTIP would create binding rules on both sides of the Atlantic for all levels of the state down to local authorities, and therefore would apply to around 820 million people. It would include large areas of business life, from trade with service providers, to public contracts, agriculture and mining, and through to technical standards and intellectual property. Additionally, private companies would be given the possibility of suing states before private arbitration tribunals if the states enact laws which have a negative effect on the investments and profit expectations of the company.
      https://stop-ttip.org/what-is-the-problem-ttip-ceta/faqs/

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  3. The NHS isn’t something I use from time to time it’s something I use every day; 3 – 4 major hospital appointments a week – with the GP / Nursing back up added – were not unusual as a child and youngster. Having multiple disabilities and health issues it has been there for me since the day I was born – and I don’t just mean the birth – my 1st operation was a 3 days old and I have had many since.

    The privatization of the service (something The Lib Dems had no mandate for) has already seen services suffer – I have already experienced this. Waiting times, retention on lists, support denied through cost, less staff, being sent all over the country fr services that used to be local – I’ve seen it all.

    It seems many people have forgotten how important the service is – and how more important it is for the daily survival of others. It is as if some have got used to it being there and think it will never go away. Well they are wrong – if we don’t act now it will and it will be totally sold off to the highest bidder, for the maximum profit margin and the lowest standard of care.

    I remember Cam the Sham issuing the bland statement ‘The Conservatives will ensure the NHS remains free at the point of delivery and need’.He then went on to give away vast chunks of the NHS to many of his donors. UKIP now say exactly the same thing – “UKIP will ensure the NHS remains free at the point of delivery and need.” Neither say / said anything about privatization but the message is the same. More opt and and ‘fire sales’ will happen if we don’t fight.

    Many moan about some the possibilities TTIP may incur; and I am one. But what they don’t see is this process is already happening here and now – big companies have invaded the system and service already – and do so more each day; the issue of privatization isn’t a possibility just because of the TTIP – its here and now and happening today. And what do some do. Blame Europe – well it isn’t Europe NHS free marketeers like the British Government – and if we let him Mr UKIP’s Mr Carswell and Mr Nuthall – that are destroying the foundations of the health service for profit.

    If people don’t act we will loose it – some may loose an appointment – others will loose lives. Wake up before its too late.

    SKT xxxx

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    • SKT
      Did you even bother to watch the video before commenting? If you did then you will have heard that it’s a CROSS-PARTY deliberate destruction of our NHS leading to a perception that only the private sector can save it.

      Having just read your comments on another thread accusing people of using an issue for political point scoring – the words Pot, Kettle, Black come to mind. Closely followed by the word Hypocrite.

      rothperson

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  4. Come on Sally I notice not one word about your beloved Labour wanting to charge to see you GP
    Knock all but Labour
    You quote UKIP policy ware are the written Policies of your beloved Labour Party so we can fairly judge

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  5. Well if your going to be rude Caven here it is:

    Caven – don’ be so paranoid – yet again you see anyone who disagrees with you has immediately being a Labour mole – it’s so childish – it says a lot about your descent in to party indoctrination – and your willingness to no longer listen to anyone but your party bosses.

    Calm down – you’ll need a GP appointment – still to be free under Labour – despite what your bosses tell yo to push out (He’s so faithful – bless). Still I see you’re still not denying UKIP haven’t said officially they won’t privatize the NHS in any way or oppose privatization. . Maybe that’s what got you so angry. You’ve been caught out hiding behind Tory borrowed soundbites yet again. (As well as it seems a Tory manifesto)

    Quote: Paul Nuttall, Ukip “the very existence of the NHS stifles competition – as long as the NHS is the ‘sacred cow’ of British politics the British people will suffer with a second rate health service”

    For Anon – see link re Labour’s vote on anti privatization re TTPI

    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/labour-will-back-anti-privatisation-bill-that-will-exempt-nhs-from-ttip/

    For CAven

    http://leftfootforward.org/2014/05/gp-appointment-within-48-hours-under-a-labour-government/

    By the way Caven -look at UKIP’s policies again – look at Education – work out which one has actually been in practice for quite a while – with cross party cooperation- – then like me have a chuckle – and then get a new Education spokesperson who can has been to a school and can research properly. Lol. Its so funny.

    SKT

    XXXX

    I just realized why UKIP don’t want to introduce blank packaging on cigarette packaging; it would leave too large a space for them to write their real policies on.

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  6. Sorry Sally I’ve published a written list of our 2015 policies on this site
    Now until some one does the same and published the same of Labour official policies (not press stories) and we are all playing on a level field
    I will not engage again in any debates on this site
    I am the only local politician to engage on this site and tried to be open and transparent
    Now you don’t have one
    By

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  7. I love quotes. They can sometimes have the effect on the human mind similar to a light being switched on when we are fumbling around in the dark banging into things. If we are fortunate enough to still have our marbles in old age we have an added advantage of hindsight and a clearer understanding of how self deceived us humans can be.
    One quote I read today ( by that master of one liners Mr Churchill) is thus…”Evil can be created much quicker than it can be cured” One does not need higher education to see the truth of that especially when one has lived a few decades and done some fumbling in the dark, so to speak. Trouble is , as Mr Churchill said ” Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and carry on”
    I never intended when joining this blog to get involved in politics , I guess I should have known better… It was the CSE Rotherham that was a major news item here in NZ that prompted me to engage in this blog. Rotherham was my home before we emigrated to NZ 50 years ago it has been both interesting, frustrating and frightening to see how people place their hope in party politics for ‘salvation’. Now there are many things the elderly gladly step aside and let youth steer the ship but we dinosaurs have something of value to offer in the way of wisdom. (You can find the definition in the dictionary)
    We have learned the hard way that wrong choices always bring unpleasant results , often decades later.
    Here comes my point, as a wife and mother of a large family in days when men brought home cash , it was not rocket science that you couldn’t spend more than you earn without getting into trouble no matter how much we thought we needed or deserved it. Technology has not changed that basic principle.
    In my capacity as a volunteer, I have been astounded at the cost of trying to rehabilitated drug users and alcohol abusers and terminate unwanted pregnancies. They come back again and again and again… None of these are illnesses but mainly life choices and somebody else pays…. Usually it’s not the person receiving the health services. Neither is it a one off payment that one expects from say,surgery but it is a long term financial commitment by no other than the tax payer.
    But then we have prioritized peoples right to choose the service even if they don’t pay.
    Most Western countries pay for Dr’s and prescriptions as well as in taxes and we don’t whinge about it.
    So it’s not rocket science to the average bloke or Sheila that if Britain chooses to call drug and alcohol abuse a disease, or abortions primary health care because someone slips up on responsibility, or any self destructive activity, then no political party can fix it.
    If people who choose to take un prescribed drugs were made to take out insurance to cover the cost of related problems then no insurance would cover them.
    Most of problems of society are moral and not political and require moral responsibility to fix it. It’s easier to turn around a dinghy than an ocean liner but it is possible with guts….Lets try and impress on our kids that a bad choice brings a bad result for everyone concerned.

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  8. Armed forces veterans and NHS
    Since the two world wars our armed forces have put themselves in harm’s way again and again because we asked them to. As a sign of our gratitude we have signed a covenant that is now enshrined in the Armed Force Act 2011. The military covenant states that soldiers could be called upon to make the “ultimate sacrifice” but in return they and their families will be “sustained and rewarded by commensurate terms and conditions of service”
    So as we think of those who have died and those who have become disabled as well as those who might require support in the future we can at least assure current members of our forces that as a token of our gratitude we will “reward and sustain” them and their families. Implicit in here is an assumption of honesty and integrity in our society and it’s leaders, values they are actually fighting for…correct?
    Well no! ………Whilst with one hand the coalition government signs the covenant and passes the Armed Forces Act, with the other hand it passes another Act, the Health and Social Care Act 2012, that REMOVES the duty for the Government to provide health care services. The Act not only removes this duty from the Government and the Secretary of State of Health but it passes it on as a duty to PROMOTE health in a local area to a bunch of NHS managers.
    This sort of double dealing is not what our armed forces have signed up to.
    Men and women returning from combat duty face, for example, mental health issues that are more complex than those faced by the population in general. PTSD ( post-traumatic stress disorder) symptoms sometimes start presenting themselves decades later.
    We are still seeing new cases for the Malayan emergency in 1960 and the Falklands war in 1982. In 2013 we saw a rise of 57% on 2012 of Afghan war related cases. It is over 5 years since we withdrew combat troops from Iraq but last year we saw new cases increase by 20% on the previous year. It is estimated that we will see over 42000 mental health cases from just the Iraq and Afghan wars. A figure of 1 in 5 who have been active duty in Iraq or Afghanistan.
    Sir Richard Dannat (Ex Chief of staff and Defence adviser to David Cameron) has said the government will talk these figures down for budgetary and compensation reasons.
    Professor Neil Greenberg, from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, says he believes ministers are failing to honour the military covenant promise. He goes on to say “In my view the government needs to be a bit more honest about what it is delivering and just what it says it’s delivering, because the two are definitely not the same,”
    A key reason is the disproportionate way that that mental health budgets have been affected by the cuts in the NHS budgets. Because of this GPs are now having to deal with issues beyond their competence and require specialist help.
    Early intervention is paramount a sentiment echoed by Sir Richard “if you break a leg you don’t wait for 6 weeks for an appointment with a fracture clinic”.
    Clinicians also say that it is paramount to treat the individual holistically, something that is becoming impossible as services get fragmented because of privatisation of the NHS.
    As specialist treatments gets harder to access veterans start falling through the net. Veterans who have a hard time transitioning to civilian life, have lost family and social support networks and possibly suffering with marital problems should not have to try and navigate and negotiate complex pathways and processes while being, mentally, in a bad place.
    That is what the NHS offers. But the very values, ethos and principles that the NHS offers is being sold off to the private sector leaving veterans and their families in the future having to pay in the first place and then argue with Insurance companies their right to basic services let alone specialist services.
    This is not what the covenant intended. The future of our veterans does not bode well with demise of our NHS.
    Cynically the coalition government is killing of the very embodiment of what we are asking our young men and women to lay their lives down for

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  9. Lets not forget this man!

    Not saying things would ever go back to the way Harry describes but it certainly makes me think – Thank God for the NHS.

    rothperson

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    • Hi Rothperson, Yes indeed thank God for the NHS… Generally speaking though, God doesn’t keep filling up the coffers when the cash runs out because we keep spending it on our indulgences under the disguise of necessities. Old Harry wouldn’t recognize the present company of the new Labour or the new anything for that matter. That’s because he was toughened up to know responsibility and rights had to be in balance to make it work. That’s what his generation had over the present one.

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      • We also spend it on warfare, bank bailouts etc..etc..etc. £375 Billion in quanitative easing – where’s it gone? Mega corps allowed to avoid paying billions in taxes. Billions to the EU. Billions to the IMF. Billions to NATO.

        We’re being well and truly mugged Linda. Politicians today are little more than media personalities. Front men for the enormous spin machine than grinds on behind them. None of them worthy of support and certainly not worthy of the blind dogged loyalty shown by many.

        Sadly, the values of Harry’s generation are gone. They’re not coming back.

        rothperson

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  10. Rik, I must be doing something wrong…. I don’t get Rothpol blogs in my email box as I once did. As I say, I am a novice at how technology works… It needs to be spelt out to me as though one were teaching a child…

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  11. Yes Rothperson you are right about billions of dollars and pounds being fed into great insatiable political machines. It does not negate what I am trying to say about NHS I am agreement with you on the media savvy political personalities…But, clinging to Labour or any political party to fix it is, I am afraid, a vain hope. It is people of character and squeaky clean integrity that is needed. Political promises are a mile wide and an inch thick. Nice, pretty or handsome people or even well educated people are not always reliable people. We need to rely on politicians who can steer us through the turbulent and challenging days we live in. I am afraid they do not all reside in the Labour of any other political party.
    50 years ago we sailed 12 thousand miles on a fairly small ship with rather crude stablisers . We didn’t notice it until we hit heavy seas. Hundreds of immigrants and crew depended basically on one man… The captain… We did not care what the captain looked like or if he was a nice person and we didn’t even care if we liked him or not …. All we needed was the captain to get us through The Bay of Biscay and The great Australian Bite without sinking the b….. ship. Period….
    The blind clinging to defunked labour politicians and party in Rotherham is akin to clinging to a plank when the ship has gone down and hoping the plank will arrive safely at your desired destination. It won’t.

    Like

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