The Bishop of Sheffield delivers the first part of his Presidential Address to Synod reflecting on the Jay Report in Rotherham.
The Christian Church has been almost silent on the scandal so far.
Judging by this – maybe they should stay that way!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwuGmOr0M0
rothperson
Rotherham Politics 
Was waiting for the bucket for donations to appear. Basically he was saying we’ve been on a sabbatical for over 30 years, seen no evil, heard no evil, haven’t know of any evil. Hence never said a word or intervene to stop such unspeakable evil. Another unless institution which when the people were desperate for their help, exhabited it’s moral cowardice.
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Manc, sorry but I think you are so wrong. Pillorying institutions is part of the problem here. We let these “big” organisations fill the vacuum which all of us as individuals are responsible for, then when they fail to act they get it in the neck. What am I doing now? What are you doing now? The “church” can’t win. Written off as irrelevant one minute then blamed for failing to speak out the next. Which is it to be? Do you want “god-botherers” to stay on the side-lines or come out and speak? I bet some Christians who knew did speak out. I know for a fact that some were among those addressing cse at the time and presented hard evidence on perpetrators to the relevant authorities. They were ignored along with everyone else…I, myself, spoke out extensively during the 2012 by election on the issue which was when I heard about cse for the first time. I offered ways forward then that many are putting forward now while all other candidates played the blame game. Nearly 10,000 still voted for the incumbent party who have presided over this horror. They still came out and voted in the PCC election the same way (although interestingly for a vicar who is part of the useless institution, yet within three weeks we get 10 policemen being investigated and 3 arrests, so credit where credit is due?). Will people still vote Labour again in 2015? Probably. The leaders you get…etc. It behoves all of us as individuals to take personal responsibility, and do what we can, surely? So don’t knock those who are trying to be part of the solution now if you don’t want to still be part of the problem. And btw the bucket DIDN’T appear…that particular bucket is gathering dust in the corner and has been for years – same old criticisms. If you are going to have a pop come up with something more original!
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Pious words, meaningless platitudes, will the drivel of excuses never end.
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“I, myself, spoke out extensively during the 2012 by election on the issue which was when I heard about cse for the first time”
One thing I find intensely irritating are these butter wouldn’t melt in the mouth, Road to Damascus moments of revelation re Norfolk’s Rotherham report circa 2012.
It seems rather odd to me that nobody in your organisation, Rev, apparently took heed of Ann Cryer 2003, Edge of the City in 2004 and Bindel’s Sunday Times article of 2007 in which she made it abundantly clear what was occurring. The first line or so containing the striking statement that “sinister gangs of pimps are targeting schoolgirls in Lancashire and Yorkshire”
Surely somebody should have said; “hang on a minute, this is very alarming – we should put feelers out on the ground, and if this is gen, go public with it”.
But that didn’t happen did it?
One might just about take at face value claims that the C of E knew nothing much, but irrelevance is not much of a defence, and if the Church was irrelevant then it must be irrelevant now
It seems that mosque leaders knew all right
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736995/Muslim-leaders-fully-aware-problem-did-Pakistani-community-worker-makes-explosive-claims-religious-leaders-talked-mosques-not-police.html
And if one compares C of E handwringers with the redoubtable Mohan Singh(Sikh Awareness Society) it is a sorry contrast indeed
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Forgot were in the modern world, you do it by direct debit these days lol
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Did I read correctly, that your calling the 3 arrests, are due to us having a vicar as head of PCC. Devine intervention I think not. You’ve got a lot to learn about media manlipuation. But if you think 3 arrests was a tremendous start, let’s put this into proportion. 1400+, conservative estimate, remembering that there are loads more victims who didn’t report their abuse. If each child was raped and abused at least 10 – 20 times, by multiply preptrators , how many victims and good moral citizens(abusers) are there? The Devine one didn’t give me the ability of mathematical excellence, and my mobile is charging.
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“Judging by this, maybe they should stay that way”
Rothperson, whoever you are, I find your cynicism saddening. There is nothing much in this address that can be faulted imho. Bishop Steven could have easily and arrogantly claimed that christians have got ” all the answers”. He didnt. We are only part of the answer and can only play our part. He could easily have stirred up destructive division against other communities as the far right seek to do. He didn’t. Such responses dont help the victims. He could easily have made religious or political capital but he didn’t. He put the victims first and many Christians continue to think of them first. Much work is going on behind the scenes and christians are involved in that along with many others. But much work remains and we are on a long road to recovery. Yes, prayer may seem a weak response, but “more things are accomplished by prayer than this world dreams of” If prayer cannot hurt we should do it. He could easily have trumpeted the church as a shining example of an institution with an unblemished record of child protection. Ha ha ha. He would have been a fool to do so. He called for humility and continued vigilance. Nothing wrong with that. We have some bitter experience to share and we have learned lessons, believe it or not because, as cse is so endemic, the Christian community needs to judge itself as much as any other sector of society. But the Gospel, challengingly, carries within it that capacity for sober self criticism: “judgement begins with the household of God”. We have to examine ourselves before charging out with condemnation or crusading agendas. But contrast the inability of the kind of thinking that has come to dominate the political establishment, unwilling to offer critique on anything within any culture that is, in any way, suspect. The kind of thinking exposed by the Jay report that allowed evil to go unchallenged and unchecked. In the light of that, a sober reflection on true Biblical values cannot do any harm. Responding as a society may even help address this sickness that is so prevalent in society now and has crept upon us while we slept. Both the values and the means to address cse are there in a biblical worldview that society has rejected wholesale and yet we wring our hands when evil strikes. Christians would be so wrong not to point to these values and a potential part of a cure so we will not shut up, sorry! Nor will we, god willing, fail to act. We have too many scriptural examples to remain dormant. In Advent, Christians remember the birth of John the Baptist who came “in the spirit and power of Elijah” to “turn the hearts of the older generation to the children”. An interesting theme of healing inter-generational breakdown there? We do well to reflect on how we can make that happen. Going back further, in Israel’s history, the real Elijah, with suicidal courage, stood almost alone against a tide of Baal worship in which the abuse and killing of children was endemic and officially sanctioned. Can anyone deny that this generation needs the prophetic courage of a few Elijah’s in a similar vein? If the Bishop’s address is weak it is in failing to call for such prophetic courage! No doubt this will come in time but help for victims and prevention must be top priority now. Anything that helps debate must be welcomed not cast aside so cynically, surely? Hereendeththelesson….
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In the people’s hour of need the church was conspicuous by it’s absense and silence. No wonder the people have no faith in it and our other institutions. We require leadership not reflection.
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You seem to know it all. Why don’t you step up to the plate and lead us to the promised land? What do you do thatmakes you so all seeing and all knowing? Or are you just another typical Manc gobshite?
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Thank you Rev. That’s me told. I certainly can be over-cynical at times – not a quality and something I’ve been reminded of too many times to be able to deny.
Elijah and the prophets of Baal:
‘And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.’
Fitting example of biblical text.
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Rev. Would you agree that the Church needs men and women who can at least speak with passion – who at least sound as though they mean it? A Reverend Martin Luther King Jr style might be asking too much – but you get my gist.
Are the current lot specially trained to speak with such flat, monotone and uninspiring voices?
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I agree utterly. We need Elijah’s who said it like it was and also had a great sense of humour. See the way he taunts the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18: 27! Hope you dont feel too told off! Its not really really my style!
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Child abuse and the church, Haven’t the two always been closely linked? I’ve been trying to get the CofE to explain why it did nothing in the Savile case, knowing full well what he was up to. The Archbishop of Canterbury is exercising his right to silence.
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Parsonage, all I can say is that, as abuse continued, and still continues today from the date of Ann Cryer’s report, then not many people can hold their hands up and say they did all they could. I think nearly everyone has been pretty taken aback by the scale of this. We have all been really busy getting on with our lives (and doing stuff we would otherwise, no doubt, be heavily criticised for not doing). I think we have a right to expect that elected representatives and appropriate institutions (who get paid for the very purpose) were dealing with this. I think we have a right to question and comment when it turns out that they were not. I am unaware of what anyone in “my organisation” knew or didn’t know (I moved to Rotherham in 2010 and had never heard of cse before that). I know it is hardly fair to criticise a body or individual for not knowing than for knowing something and doing nowt. My point about the so-called irrelevance of the church is that we are generally written off as such, until someone (like Manc) suddenly wants to have a pop at us for not speaking out. It seems pretty negative to me, to criticise people for trying to get to grips with the issue. Surely we all want the same thing here? As for your comments, Manc, about “drivel” and “platitudes”, you fail to address any of my points so it’s hard not to conclude that you are the one who has no argument. Writing someone off as platitudinous without backing up that conclusion is as uncreative as being platitudinous in the first place. It’s just too easy to slag off everyone in sight but ask yourselves if it is really fair? Start by asking yourself what you were doing about it and how much you knew. As for actions not words, I did take two months out of a chronically busy life to stand for election in 2012, addressing this, among other issues. And I will do it again if I must. The amount of cash I spent personally, from my own pocket, without any support from a party machine, is on public record. Tell me what you have done and we can have a proper conversation based on mutual respect. And, if, by your reference to direct debits, I understand that you want to donate by that method, retrospectively to my past campaign or to help me run a new one, by all means feel free!!!!
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Manc, please try reading what is said. You wrote off the church as a useless institution. I point out that a vicar (presumably also useless) gets elected as PCC and we get 3 arrests and 10 plods investigated in a very short period. I never said this was divine intervention (it may be!) nor did I say that was the problem solved. We have a long way to go…As for media manipulation: the election of the PCCs and the arrests and investigations are all facts. If these things were in train before Sean Wright departed why did Sean Wright not point them out to save his career? Don’t think he did! Not going to write more on this post until we can have a reasoned debate so sayonara!
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“I point out that a vicar (presumably also useless) gets elected as PCC and we get 3 arrests and 10 plods investigated in a very short period. I never said this was divine intervention (it may be!)”
Does the Deity operate on the basis on the basis of highly dodgy postal voting? Because Billings was “elected” on the basis of an 80% postal vote. As for the arrests and plod investigation you seem to be making simplistic assumptions about cause and effect.
You didn’t really address my points about Church of England inaction, which can only be considered an epic fail.
The Bishop of Sheffield, judging by his musings on the issue here, appears to be left inclined; and it is a fair question whether the Church has been wise to cosy up to leftist organisations and community leaders
eg
“CAASE will meet head-on the communal challenges raised by child sexual exploitation of vulnerable young girls and women.”
The initiative is supported by the Muslim Council of Britain, Muslim Youth Helpline, Muslim Community Helpline, Federation of Muslim Organisations, Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board, the Christian Muslim Forum, City Sikhs Network, and the Church of England, plus women’s rights groups.”
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/muslim-leaders-back-campaign-against-street-grooming-gangs-1-5653228
“Nick Lowles, of Hope not Hate, said: “The evil that is abuse happens across all areas of society. This is not an issue of race or religion.
“We want to encourage all our partners to help us remove the veils of secrecy and control that allow abuse to flourish. We also need to ensure that the media, and far-right groups, do not promote an anti-Muslim agenda over so-called ‘grooming’ trials either”
Not an issue of race and religion? Really? So-called grooming trials? I don’t think they ever got around to producing “myth busting materials”
IMHO the CSA enquiry should look into the failings of the Church of England here
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Parsonage you may well be right. Dont think any of us have come out of the episode unsoiled. Thanks for all the useful info. I am not c of e so not completely aware of everything there. But one of my colleagues at seminary was a persistent abuser and none of us picked it up before, during or after his time at college.
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It is truly saddening that there are people on here who seek to do nothing but snipe and criticise anyone and everyone who speaks out or does anything to try to address the problems facing our town. The new Director of Children’s services was being shot down before he’s even started in post, people are smearing all those involved with Rotherham Standing Together and generally slagging off every individual and organisation.
I would like to know what people like Manc01 suggest. Who exactly do you think can address the problems? Is there anyone whose motives you wouldn’t question?
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Dear Robin, as you well know, a few of us on here have someone opposite views to the mainstream sheep on here, who have been lead to their slaughter and believe everything they were told. We feel it is our duty, nah right to post our views, in the hope that we are contributing something positive to this issue.
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But you contribute nothing – least of all anything positive. Just smartarse comments, and slagging off everyone. Your contributions may make you feel less than inadequate, but they do nothing for anyone else. Why don’t you go somewhere else for your therapy?
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Have a hit a raw nerve here, not used to healthy debate? Again the arrogance that you know best, isn’t that what got you into this mess in the first place.
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Manc01, but this isn’t healthy debate. You slag off everyone, impugn everyone’s motives, fail to respond to anyone’s points, fail to put forward any positive ideas of your own, fail to cite your own actions in regard to tackling cse and, when we get annoyed , say you must be hitting a raw nerve! It’s not so much a raw nerve of guilt regarding our response to cse as the fact that you are being totally negative. As i posted before, please, lets have your positive contributions…
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You wont get anything off this Manc character but crap – he is incapable of saying anything constructive and is basically an attention-seeking troll.
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Ta Fx
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Attention seeking troll, is that what you call people who express an opinion. Perhaps you so call experts can tell everybody how we are in this mess, since you seem to have all the answers, yet lamentably failed so badly.
people have lost faith in our institutions and the people who run them, and surport them precisely because of CSE. They don’t understand how such so call professional, with so much powers, could have screw up so badly. There sick of numerous excuses and buck passing. So when they hear these same do Gooders, claiming they have answers, they want to puck with disgust.
Remember this, we all have a choice and a right on how to live our life’s, these children and their families didn’t because of your deliberate acts of denial and deciet of facing up to a problem and tackerling it. If the Church has stood up and be counted, wouldn’t people have listen and took action. When the going got tough, it melted away. It lost it’s courage to speak out againist evil, even if that evil was another religion.
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Sticks fingers in ears and waits for facts and reason to prevail
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Would do, but I can’t would be a cop out, as so many have done in the past and still doing today
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