CSE Denial – The duty of the citizen?

I think we have to be careful using terms like mob rule…elected officials have the right to determine local by-laws, but in a democracy citizens have a right to protest and demonstrate – legally.

There is a bigger question around fears that the Pakistani community leaders (Mahroof, Shabana, Shaukat and gone but not forgotten Akhtar) are more inclined to encourage denial than confront the issue of CSE & the abuse of women by some males within their ethnic community.

Their argument is is undeniable, women and child sex abuse is all too common within almost every ethnicity and creed, it is sadly a global phenomena.

However if it was happening “down my street,” and in my wider family/clan system I hope I would act. I may not be able to stop the global trade but I can act where I see injustice, where I can do something. Read Jay on the subject of their performance

Jay showed that it is definitely happening in a big way within their community, among a sector they are uniquely positioned to understand….the taxi drivers. Yet their actions have merely been to deny all knowledge, and complain about racism…real or imagined. Oh, and yes, the formation of some half hearted groups bemoaning CSE, essentially formed from their relatives to smokescreen their lack of activity.

Taxi drivers and landlords clearly don’t want anything that might increase their costs. But the question must be put back to them, what do you know about CSE,who did you know and what are you doing about it?

For here is the nub.

Long ago the Council started looking at means of improving control and accountability of taxi drivers, and landlords in our most deprived neighbourhoods. They pulled back from these actions ahead of of the 2014 local elections in order get the the Pakistani vote, and only resuscitated the by-laws process when the embarrassment of Jay showed how little they have done.

You only have to walk around our inner town areas and use the occasional taxi to see how bad some of them are. Rubbish housing and taxis that are old, dirty and often bereft of suspension.

Ask a taxi driver about business and they will inevitable tell you there are far too many drivers, meaning not enough business to maintain the quality of cars for a 21st century town. Ask a social worker about abuse of the Roma children and they will point you to those landlords whose racketeering is a key element in the cycle of drugs, CSE and illegal labour.

The reality is without taxi & landlord controls, just as with without hard firm policing, this town will not have a CSE prevention strategy worthy of the name. All the policies, procedures, strategies will come to nought, because there have always been laws and procedures…..what we have missed is controls and enforcement.

Now I will say something controversial.

I worked the taxis on and off in another city for a year. This was a big City, yet even there taxi driving proved to be a small world of people who tended to know what was happening in the trade.

I became aware of the prostitution runs, just as I became aware of who was fare pinching. Every taxi firm had a few drivers who were prepared to earn more cash by linking up punters with the prostitutes. I was once allocated such a run by mistake and refused to take the punter to the red light district, then complained when I got back to the office. I was never asked again, and probably was never the best paid driver.

You get to know who goes on the prostitution calls, either because some calls always go to them, or because of macho bragging about working on the edge, nobody was ashamed. There have been enough revelations by former taxi drivers on local radio in Sheffield, Bradford and elsewhere to back this up. I’m sure that in Rotherham many taxi drivers didn’t attach a stigma to under age sex, and for some bragging was quite open.

I believe that possibly a majority of drivers know the game, and the participants. Just as a private landlord knows the source of his tenants income.

So I have some questions.

What are the drivers and the landlords doing to liaise and inform the police as to who are the bad lads? What solutions do they propose, or do they even see a problem?

If Mahroof, Shabans, Showkat and Akhtar don’t support stronger regulation, what is their solution? [Here I have to point out that duck and diver Mahroof probably won’t know his position on the issue until he can guess the outcome of the vote.]

So far it seems they are keeping their mouths shut in english and very open in their vernacular. And I almost forgot.

They remain keen to apply the political stiletto within the still gated and protected domain of the local Labour Group…..Akhtar is trying to kid people he’s still a player, while Mahroof seemingly uses every tactic possible to malign and thereby silence his opponents.


Simon offered his prescription:

I have been in two situations recently where I heard from reputable sources of considerable amounts of solid evidence of cse perpetrators being passed to the police: in one case actual names numbering in the hundreds. And this was many years ago!

Yet only five perpetrators have been brought to justice in Rotherham so far and that was really down to the local communities not police or agencies. Can the police, or do the police really want, to protect children? Sometimes I wonder. Or, giving them the benefit of the doubt, do they feel genuinely that their hands are tied by legislation/procedure etc?

If so we, as a society need to make some brave decisions about sacrificing some liberties and rights for the sake of children at risk – especially if, as is feared, this scale of abuse is endemic across the nation.

We need to give the police a solid legislative framework that gives them real powers. In the meantime will the new PCC instil some backbone and a new culture?

If police do, in fact, lack solid evidence then could they not think outside the box to make suspected perpetrators’ lives a misery and make them think twice?

Sex with a minor is a crime, period, which on it’s own should be enough to secure convictions.

One way is, if you cannot clamp down on the men then clamp down on the means: the hotels, the bedsits, the taxis, the takeaways etc.

Go for traffic violation, environmental health violation, landlord regulation, taxi licensing, tax regulation – anything to let them know you are on their case and watching like hawks… anything to make it difficult, anything to make them think twice.

Stop and ask any group of men with young girls what they are doing. Move them on. Take details and let them know you are checking in about any past criminal record.

Patrol the streets, bus stations, school gates and parks, and five minutes later patrol them again and five minutes later do it again.

Invade the physical space that these perpetrators occupy. Of course someone will cry that this is an abuse of human rights.

Honestly I don’t give a ****. The human rights of potential victims outweigh all other considerations by far at present…

Simon Copley

20 thoughts on “CSE Denial – The duty of the citizen?

  1. Simon, thank you for this article. I certainly agree about the human rights of the victims being paramount, but as you note yourself, SYP had plenty of information. Their powers under existing legislation were no bar to acting on it. Instead they destroyed evidence, arrested victims and parents and intimidated whistleblowers. There’s nothing to stop them from arresting and prosecuting abusers and indeed with the NCA closing in we have started to see a little action (not enough).
    What additional powers would you like the police to have and what gives you confidence that SYP won’t use those powers to target the whistleblowers rather than the rapists?


    • Hi Giles – Thanks – I must point out that my bit of the article was only from where it says “grrrrr” – then to the end. The new author has then used a previous post of mine but I certainly stand by it as a method of policing!!


      • That’s right Simon. People with passion, heart and balls are able to do more than a thousand PC clones and committees. A thick skin may also be a plus !!!


      • Thanks. All those ideas at the end of the article have merit. If they require extra powers I’d have no problem. But I still hold that SYP had quite adequate powers to stop this 15 years ago if the will existed. There’s certain things I can’t share here but the attempts by SYP to cover this up didn’t end even after the Casey report. So we do have to weigh whether they would use any new powers against the villains or against the whistleblowers.
        Still, I had a disagreement with our own Regular Reader over the Human Rights Act just the other day, I want to see its repeal. I’m pretty hardcore zero tolerance on this. By any means necessary! If I thought internment without trial would put a stop to this I would back it, no hesitation. I just worry that in our area it might be those working to stop CSE that might be the ones to end up interned. There’s a lot more about official complicity that will be emerging in the next couple of years (fingers crossed) and it’s a big problem if the people you are giving the powers to are actually on the other side.
        I’m with you in principle though.


      • Well said Simon, I agree with your sentiment BUT, have you ever heard of the terms, “Institutional Racism”, “Racial Abuse”, “Racial Harassment” and many more? The current IPCC would have a field day being able to brand every copper in the Country a racist just for doing their job as you would wish them do.
        I would love to see them dealing with this racist scum (I mean the Pakistani abusers) in the manner you suggest but you well know it is impossible in this day and age. I can tell you, I speak from extremely good and many years experience.


  2. Hi Giles, You say ” I just worry that it might be those working to stop CSE might be the ones end up interned.” History shows beyond doubt that they will be interned for being people of honour…..
    Prostitution pimps, drugs, pornography social media , celebrities etc don’t appreciate being challenged. And they have monstrous clout in the 21st century. They are our law makers and they indoctrinate the new ‘normal’ for the nations children. (the perpetrators of the CSE in Britain know better that we do how they can use the system for gain )
    By nature I am of a fearful disposition, but some things are more important than fear eh……..


    • Thanks Linda. If you had told me this five year ago I would have said you were paranoid. I used to say the two problems with conspiracy theories are that Governments aren’t efficient and people can’t keep secrets. Yet we now know of so many cover ups and conspiracies over this issue going back decades. There have been people sectioned and fitted up for fighting to stop the rape gangs and paedophile rings. And there’s much more to come out as some readers will know, though discussion could undermine the NCA investigation and prosecutions. The corruption of the authorities creates a real dilemma when it comes to ideas like providing then with more powers.
      Yes we must overcome fear. Astonishing how many people turned a blind eye to gang rape not through threats to themselves or their family but just through fear someone would call them a racist!


  3. Is any one willing to join me in setting up our own street watch to get a group of people willing to give a couple of hours a week to set up patrol teams in the know vulnerable areas of CSE activity
    Taking down car no’s making notes taking a few pictures then taking it to the Authority’s and making them act on it as it would be open and difficult for them to cover it up
    Any one interested contact me and we can get something going


    • I see your frustration Caven with the lack of action in dealing with the problem of CSE and the perpetrators.

      I think your motives are well founded and well intended and I don’t believe for one minute that you intend any vigilantism. However, there are those in our town (and as we have seen, from outside our town) that I fear would highjack such an initiative and turn it into mob action to spread hatred.


  4. Why do you say that Rik?
    Concerned citizens who volunteer to help in their local area’s to identify potential lawbreakers, miscreants and kerbcrawlers are only one step up from Neighbourhood Watch volunteers IMV.
    Caven has not issued a call for volunteer vigilantes and his suggestion makes more sense than turning away and pretending problems do not exist.
    Which is what Labour controlled RMBC did.


  5. Maybe not fully Rik but we have to do something all we hear is talk talk talk and no real action or not enough
    . If these people knew they were being watched but not by who it may just slow them down if nothing else
    I as a Councillor who wants some thing doing to rid our town of this scourge am getting so frustrated with the apparent lack of action against both the perpetrators and,those who helped cover it all up
    I just feel we need to do something I can’t see anything being done to date
    Getting on 3years on from The times story and nearly a year from the Jay Report
    I just have no faith in the Set up of the Councillors put into advisory positions just look who they are and their past record what a joke you really could not make it up
    Some were on the Jay report seminar and kept quite some ex unfit for purpose cabinet members and some never set foot in the town hall before so what can they advise on ???


    • Caven and Colin, Direct action of the kind you describe has it’s place but only to draw attention to ignored problems. We have everyones attention and more investigations than we can keep up with.
      I believe the role of the citizen currently, is to provide support and encouragement to those who are trying to sort our problems. The SYP, NCA and the Commissioners are doing their level best at the moment to establish the truth of the past and to procure the necessary changes to prevent the ‘Rotherham Model’ from returning to our Town and to help in dealing with the same issues elswhere.
      Should those mentioned above fail us, then that will be the time for the citizen to become directly involved in bringing criminals to book!
      Hope that clarifies my position?


      • Rik, you know I agree about the NCA, but I think you must have made a slip of the keyboard when you put SYP as one of the organisations doing their best?


  6. The police say they do not have the manpower to patrol our streets so what is wrong with good law abiding people giving them a helping hand by keeping their eyes open and reporting what they see
    Or giving people information on what to look out for so they are aware.
    They often put out appeals for people to help so why not use the eyes of the people already on the streets
    I am often on the streets of my ward and with my wife in Rotherham West and if I see what I think is suspiciousness I make notes and report it
    So let’s use every Resource we have available to rid our town of these animals and protect our kids


    • I suspect Rik’s concerns are with unintended consequences like a spill over into vigilantism and the targeting of just one community. Perhaps there would be ways to allay such concerns eg a race neutral code of conduct so its not just Asians who are under the spotlight?


      • ummm, its that sort of thinking (i.e. a race neutral code of conduct) that allows politically correctness to infest our society and which has done so much damage to our town so sorry, I personally couldn’t agree to that.

        At the end of the day, if someone has done something wrong, or is acting suspiciously then it should be reported to the Police regardless of race, religion, sex, what they are wearing or even if their eyes are too close together!

        To hesitate because of worries about whether a particular group is under the spotlight means allowing a potential wrongdoer from escaping the reach of the law.


        • “at the end of the day, if someone has done something wrong or is acting suspiciously it should be reported to the police regardless of race, religion, dress, what they are wearing or even if their eyes are too close together”
          Er, that’s exactly what race neutrality means. The political correctness that turned a blind eye to victims of the wrong colour and perpetrators of the right one is the opposite of race neutrality. If 75% of rapists are from group x then race neutrality means 75% of those arrested for rape will be from group x.


  7. Caven Vines is one of the few people I respect when I view the RMBC webcast Council Meetings. I don’t care if he can’t spell. I am in full agreement with his sentiments re policing Rotherhams streets if the police and civic leaders can’t or won’t… I imagine fathers and brothers of some of the victims would be quite willing if some men of good character don’t stand up for law and order and protection of Rotherhams children.. If vigilantes ever take over the streets it will be Rotherhams own fault. It will be the natural consequence of injustice and non protection of it’s citizens and children, It will be the act of desperate and frustrated people. Political Correctness won’t be able to stop it….
    If somebody raped and tortured my grandchildren I would be looking for community leaders and law enforcement to bring about justice. And if they didn’t !!!!!
    Once, years ago our 10 year son was attacked and throttled by a drug addled 16 year old. The school principle was useless, the local policeman was worse so I made sure that the message was passed on the to culprit that our son was the youngest in a family with angry older brother and brothers in law and the young thug couldn’t be certain of his own safety for quite some time…..
    Suprisingly, the local policeman smiled and gave my husband and I ‘thumbs up’.


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